Finding Forgiveness: Making Amends in Addiction

yeah I'm we're not live officially yet I'm just getting things okay cool yeah you I was about to say no but yeah man anyways all is good dude all is well nice man let me know when we're actually live yeah I just wanted to make sure I'm doing it a little different this time like controlling when it actually starts no how do you do that I got it set up so I can actually hit the live button on Facebook when we're ready [Music] hold on go away face it should be live on Facebook but we'll we won't start talking to the countdown goes off sit in silence to hear our voice I don't know if they can hear us or not they may be out of here unmute I can hear you now I think we're good now sweet and good what's up it's gonna take a few minutes I'm gonna get this whole system down eventually man yeah baby steps baby steps maybe one at a time right we're according to Facebook we are live and so on yeah excited to jump on here and talk Rob this week about forgiveness and all kinds of good stuff man I'm on I'm stoked I'm excited for really getting a little bit more clarity on our conversations each week so that we can have some directions promote them a little bit in advance but on man that's been fun man how's your week been dude my wheat's been really good man business has been really really well we found a little area and pocket of untouched property so it's been nice to be up there and to really be able to minister to a guy that I'm working with me he's in the world and he's like really trying to get God into his life and he opened up about why he hasn't have this relationship with God before and so it's just cool to see God transformed him before my eyes and yeah it's just it's always nice it's nice to see that man I think that's like the most rewarding thing ever is to see somebody how they once were and then to see the development in little baby steps and stages like with their speech their actions everything so yeah it's awesome to be a part of that yeah how about you man I'm good man I've been fighting with my yard this week so I am on trying to actually got pictures I've been trying to like get my yard all pretty so for the last several years this is where we started and I'm fighting this losing battle like planting grass where the kids do the swings and so it may be unnecessary but whatever what you need to do dude is you need to put gravel get some wood and they put like a great sand in that area or little rocks I need to do something right I kept them off the swings for like two weeks I felt like a horrible parent and then they go over there and start playing and like within minutes the grass is already starting to get crushed again so I guess I'll have an exercise in forgiveness it's funny you bring that up right because like I had a mole story when we had our first home in Florida we had a little mold scrum molds everywhere and so it would like just tear up the grass and so there was one point in time in my life where I had like these little traps and then y'all used to like look at me crazy through the window and like I caught one I was like yes I finally caught one and I would catch one there'd be like eight others I'm like oh forget this dude yeah can't get anywhere with this you're crazy it's craziness it's fun stuff hey so if you're on here on thank you so much for jumping in and joining in on the live stream this week Rob and I are gonna jump into forgiveness in just a second but I'll also say that on man if you're new around here please don't hesitate to hit like subscribe share this show to help us get the word out to more people we plan on jumping on every single Wednesday and continuing to just dive in on discipleship topics the next few weeks we're going to dive into addiction Rob and I both got some experience with that we've been there ourselves and also in the comments Below on man if the Lord leads you I'm not going to shill and press too hard but if on the Lord leads you please don't hesitate to click the link below and you can support the show financially and help this work that we're doing not just this podcast but on the Lord's really been dealing with me on helping other Christians who want to have a voice and want to have a platform to get their story out I've been blessed to work with a couple folks and so I'll leave that alone because I know people jump off as soon as you start asking for donations and support and so yeah but but yeah so Rob let's talk about forgiveness man the topic this week is on making amends forgiving forgiveness from God but then extending forgiveness to ourself and other people and ma'am so let's just Jump Right In what do you think makes it so hard for us I think sometimes we certain people struggle receiving forgiveness from God I know there's there's different levels to this some people receive forgiveness from God easily but then have a hard time extending it to other people especially if the offense has been pretty significant and then one layer deeper breaking that shame and being able to forgive ourselves for the mistakes that we've walked through and the mistakes that we've dealt with in our lives and so let's just jump in man what are your initial thoughts on forgiveness and where is the Lord leading you in regards to talking about this topic yeah me Justin I always like to lead from a personal experience especially from a place of I grew up around a lot of loving aunts Uncle my grandmother my cousins they were all very supportive in my life and I think for me in the damage that I've done to my family when I was in my addiction and even knowing that the mistakes that I made I was like forgiving it was like I know I could make these mistakes and I'll still be forgiven mentality but still even after all that I've done the damage that I've done the hurt the pain that I've caused and the love that they've displayed to me through it all was very hard for me to really be able to process because I felt like I was deaded to them and so even in them telling me hey look you've been forgiven there's there's like we still love you and so on and so forth lo and behold there's still a lingering like thought in the back of my mind that's like hey look things still aren't quite right because the reality is even though you're forgiven the decisions and choices that we make begin to change the way that those relationships are built and developed thereafter and so for me I've removed myself because of the hurt and the Damage that I've done and then the lies that I've told myself has caused me not to even pursue them in the same capacity as I would have before I did all the hurt and the troubles and the Pains of those individuals and so dude it's hard man because even now I'm 34 years old I'm still dealing with things that I did before that I know I'm technically forgiven from but I haven't truly forgiven myself and I don't know how to sometimes I don't know how to essentially process that because familiar spirits if you will circumstances and situations will surface itself in the head and they lay dormant and I said this a couple podcasts before man but I think the reality is that I transitioned from Teen Challenge to marriage to my firstborn to like the real world in such a quick instant that I never really had the time to deal with some of the inner hurts and troubles that I had been dealing with all along and so it's really about taking hold a new identity and learning how to accept what God's word says about you but it's the receiving that's hard I couldn't give but when it comes to me receiving even now like Pride steps in the way I'm like nah you need financial help somebody's like yeah I got you nah bro I manage meanwhile you're struggling you can't pay your bills or something like that it's like dude humble yourself and I think humility is the way that you can usher in that Spirit of forgiveness and allow people to like really help you grow in the areas of hurt and pain that you're struggling with isn't that like the garden with Adam the whole initial sin there of wanting to be like God and the self-reliance and wanting to and sometimes that hinders our ability to have to feel like we need to receive something from anybody else right so whether that's forgiveness from God it's like well why can't I just fix this on my own why do I need somebody else to resolve this for me or even that thing you just said about especially living the lifestyle of addiction we hurt a lot of people in the process and so it really requires some humility to go back and acknowledge those hurts and acknowledge that pain and then be able to receive that forgiveness but then also mentally move on so that we're not like yeah they still remember and then that's true to a degree but like getting over that hurdle of where that unspoken heard of that thing that has been forgiven we don't feel like it's impacting the relationship in the present and I think we beat ourselves up on two fronts in that regards and I can speak to myself I feel bad about what I did to that person and I feel the shame associated with it because of what I did to them but then I also internalized that like what a scumbag I was right and still no matter how much I've been forgiven there are Still Moments where like that inner Justin of who he used to be wants to come out the old man if you will and beat myself up for it's like man have I ever really dealt with this stuff completely well the thing is man is like for me a lot of it and the most influential person that was in my life was my grandmother and so dude I did things to my grandmother that I never really because she went through a phase of Alzheimer's and so you can't really communicate when somebody's going through that mental separation even though she knew who I was like I couldn't really apologize and have a genuine conversation as I would have loved to and so in her passing I felt like there was not the restoration and the healing of that relationship the way I wanted it to be yeah and even in other individuals lives that were my friends before I got in my mission I don't even talk to them today like there's things that I've done to them whether it was taking money from them lied to them so whatever it was I still have yet to be able to like reconcile and to mend that relationship and in my mind I think I always need to do that but sometimes it's like the David situation where David killed Uriah and in him killing him he never really like the Bible doesn't say that he asked for forgiveness or he like he forgave him for cheating on it what like none of that stuff I don't even think he forgave or asked for forgiveness from Bathsheba like you killed this man's husband or this Woman's husband and then all of these things unfold but what he did was is he took his pain and his hurt to God yeah and allowed God to restore his heart and I think that's the key is that we're so willing to or were so we desire so much to have our restoration with man when in reality our restoration needs to be with God yeah and then it can be done with man and so it's like it's God first and then man and so true forgiveness can only be received until you understand the forgiveness has that has come from the father yeah is what I'm getting at hey I look like I gotta I'm sorry I might have a crying baby guys my wife sorry guys I'm here hey baby yeah well I will keep talking oh there he is on my she might come and go guys this is like this is the real life this is real life yeah this is how much we value pouring into you guys that we say hey look popcorn in the movie for the kids I want to do this live chat so that I can like at least share some nuggets with you guys that's that's that's the life man that's the family life you made a point there man in that though about like where even though somebody's forgiven us the need to try to constantly pay that back like we're constantly trying to mentally make amends it made me think of the scripture I've got some scriptures this week we're getting super fancy but where the scripture says he does not deal with us according to our sins nor repay us according to our iniquities for as high as the heavens are above the Earth so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear Him and really thinking about that from the perspective of having the mind of Christ in our relationships and being able to understand that there are some steps we've got to take right when it comes to asking for forgiveness from other people hat in hand making amends where it's necessary but then being able to have the mind of Christ that like I've done all that I can do I can't continually live there anymore like I've got to let the past be the past and know that I've tried to acknowledge this make amends deal with the mistakes as much as possible but then ultimately try to have the mind to cry so that weight isn't constantly hindering that relationship going forward and a lot of that has to do with the person that's that was the recipient of the offense like we want to respect their boundaries we want to respect how much time it takes for them to move on and get healed from that and I think for me A lot of times when I put my effort out and those situations it's really because I'm trying to move that process of healing on faster like can we just get over this like like I'm sorry it was in the past I made the mistake like but can we move on and that part I think is sometimes hard because that's where that like empathy and compassion comes into play in regards to loving that person and giving them all the space that they need to be able to get over that home right and the thing is man is that a lot of people and I had this issue many times glass Barbara Glasper okay sorry no you're good I think many times man we think that forgiveness is forgetting yeah it's it's not forgetting and this is beautiful about the heart of God is because nothing is done without purpose yeah and what by that is that God will often at times utilize the level of unforgiveness and forgiveness that we display and receive from others [Music] [Music] [Music] okay hey sorry dude one second yeah you're good man no but I think that's that speaks to a lot of fun the reality of life and forgiveness and can you get them gummies please for me I think a lot about the scripture where it talks about bearing with each other and forgiving one another as on the Lord forgave us and that process that idea of bearing with people understanding that it's going to take time that the scripture is pretty clear on that in regards to it taking some time our calling is to bear with people as the Lord has forgave us and for those that are watching sorry my brain went playing for a second I went solo and I'm like oh no it's preaching mode now and so but well I the thing is I just wanted to add to this point because I think about the woman with the alabaster jar of oil and Jesus wasn't invited to the Pharisees home to dine with them and it's cool because when they were dining they were like laying frosted on the foremost just like laying down this is how they did it back in the Jewish culture and he said the that who has been forgiven much loves much yeah and so it's it's understanding right it's it's so key I think this is why Paul when he prayed for the churches he always said I pray that you would have spiritual wisdom knowledge and revelation of the Lord because as the spirit of God reveals the father to us we're able to give what has been given unto us to others yeah but the requirement is that we take the time to spend with the Lord in communion and in relationship in his word because that's when we allow him to deal with our own heart but see what we often do is we remove ourselves from the surgeon's table and we attempt to live a life without the heart and the heartbeat of the Father the transformation right the harder Stone needs to become the heart of Flesh so that we're able to look at others through the same lens that the father looks at us yeah and so then we're easy to show that Grace to show that mercy and to develop a mind frame that says Hey look I've been forgiven brother and I'm not gonna hold that against you and obviously you're not going to say those words but at the same on the same respect you're not looking at the individual as less than you're almost lifting that person up from the struggle that they might have harmed you and then vice versa you have to humble yourself to like recognize the hurt and the Damage that you've done and that this isn't something that this person can just forget like you mentioned before it's a scar right I got injured and many of you guys probably can't see this but I got injured in Virginia at a youth event that we had at the church that I was ministering at the time and my arm went through this glass window we were playing a game with the kids but the moral of the story is I always have the scars a reminder of what happened that day yeah that's good and so we leave scars I've left scars I've I've been given scars and so I have to understand that we're fragile and that we're we're were people that you don't necessarily know how to do these things on our own but we need the help of others hey I'm sorry let me go downstairs and get something really quick if you can meet me I'm so sorry Dustin yeah you're good man no I think a lot about that man with forgiveness and some of the stuff that I've walked through when you talked about he who has been forgiven much loves much and the amount of people that I've had to reach out to over my life through all my addiction and all of the mess that I walk through and expect and trust them to forgive me and so realizing that there's been a lot of Mercy extended my way and that the Lord has been gracious to me and not just the Lord but other people have been so gracious to me throughout the course of my life going back from parental relationships and stealing money when I was caught up in my addiction and then all of the stuff that I did to hurt people while I was running and ripping and doing all of that mess went up before I came to Jesus and then all of a sudden I got my life right with Christ and I began to reach out to these folks and ask them for forgiveness and so many of them were gracious enough to extend that forgiveness to me and so there is a season there is a part of life where I feel like I owe a debt of gratitude to those folks but ultimately understanding that as their followers of Christ like they've been able to give what was given to them and the best way that I can repay them is having an attitude of forgiveness toward others who wronged me in the future and I think that's a perspective shift for me that's really shifted my thinking and I think you and I talked about this in one of our first shows like I have an incredible ability not because of me but to be patient with people because so much patience has been shown with me over the course of my life and if I believe the scripture and like I want to do unto others as I would have them do unto me then I know that I extend Mercy Grace and forgiveness as liberally as possible because I hope that when I'm in the position of needing it that's returned now fortunately we have a God that no condemnation if we confess our sins he's faithful and just to forgive them when we acknowledge our sins before him he will forgive us but we understand the condition of that is that if I don't forgive other people then I'm not in a position I'm not able to be a recipient of that forgiveness from God and so I think that's a part of acknowledging that man this life is so complicated and messy and difficult at times we're dealing with people everybody has a different personality offense is going to run rampant if we're not in a position that we have that expectation that people are going to hurt me and a lot of times I think people hurt us and they don't we don't even realize they're doing it to us but we're oftentimes hurt because of our expectations on the other people and sometimes those expectations have never even been clearly communicated so they broke a boundary of ours they've shoved a nice in us unknowingly because we were either too prideful or too timid to clarify those expectations with the other people and then offense pros and then bitterness and then all of a sudden we find ourselves in this place where we've got unforgiveness in our hearts and now we've got a vertical issue because our horizontal relationships weren't in the right spot dude that is so good man that is so good I love that you said that because of sorry dude brain fart it's all good I Heard the kids do something downstairs I know my wife is supposed to be home soon but yeah I know it's I think it's just it's a it's just a measure man it's the standard that we or the expectation that's what I was looking for is the expectation that we set on other people and man I've done this even in my own marriage I had this expectation of my wife to do something and it's so funny because like I didn't realize how damaging it was until I realized that there was almost like a similar expectation of me and she called me out on it and I was just like oh dang like that's that hurts so it's just it's one of those things man where you're you don't realize that it's not really all about you when you realize it's not all about you then you can really begin to like shift but like making a direction turn when it comes to addiction how does somebody that's in their addiction Justin that might not even know God how do they overcome being forgiven how do they accept forgiveness from others in their addiction but yet in return how do they forgive themselves to not remain in that state yeah we talked about it a few minutes ago about the hardest Stone becoming heart of Flesh right and so the number one place to start is vertical right if we're not confessing our sins to God first John 1 7 right it says I got this verse here if we confess our sins he's faithful and just he'll forgive us our sins and then purify us from all unrighteousness right and so that's the starting point like for this is like getting forgiveness from God and understanding that he has a desire to extend that forgiveness to us no matter what we've done and I know that doesn't make sense on the surface but that's the race that comes through Jesus but then as we get our vertical relationship right our Heart of Stone begins to become a heart of Flesh then we start to be able to see the other areas and the other relationships in our lives I didn't care before I got my life right with Christ I'm saying my conscience had become so seared that I was willing to take and steal and do whatever I needed to do in order to get my fix or get my high that it didn't matter all the damage that I was doing was inconsequential when I gave my life to Christ the Holy Spirit began to speak to me again and it was almost on it was almost overwhelming when you start to get that clear mind and then you realize that oh my gosh like I messed over a lot of people in my addiction and the challenge I think there is that you've got to be patient with yourself because you're not going to fix them all overnight it's going to be one at a time and I'm gonna try to make amends slowly and begin to do this work over time because God's been patient with me and he's going to continue to be patient as we start to make things right yeah that's I think that's it speaks volumes just even for me man because I think I was just telling you earlier today like offline but I'm struggling with this in between stage I'm in the field of solar and it's well it's great money and all but I have also the pull-up so I want to step into full-time Ministry and do what I believe that the Lord has called me to do even on the level of something like this and just pouring back into the communities because of everything that's been given unto me and so I'm I'm living in and we had this chat a couple weeks ago but I had an opportunity to work with this guy named Chris France and like it really like just struck a nerve inside part of me doesn't forgive myself from not saying yes I'm saying no yeah and so like you live this lie of the past being the identity of Who You Are and not enjoying the process and the journey of what God is doing through that scenario and situation to help build you for the next best thing and so like for me like I look at the children of Israel they were taken out of Egypt they had this luxurious lifestyle that they could eat and drink whenever they want then they were crying about being in bondage and slavery and then they go through this process to get to the promise but yet in the process they mom they murmured and complained the whole time and so they began to look back at the past not realizing the benefit of their future and so this process of forgiving and being forgiven is a journey and it's uncomfortable why because you've allowed yourself to be numbed by something else beforehand that now that you have to like face this thing head on what yeah it's caused you to become uncomfortable and I think it's uncomfortable saying I forgive you and then accepting forgiveness from the person that you've harmed it's it's confrontational dude it's it's very uncomfortable and the best is like it's a game not between my wife and I and our house but like if I've done something wrong or even if she did something wrong I would be the first one to go downstairs and apologize and be like babe I'm sorry I didn't handle that well because like it's so rewarding but it's just rewarding it's like there's no more tension you can't hold anything against me and I'm gonna be willing to like humble myself and say like it was me what yeah and beat her to the punch but like that's the thing dude like I'm done with being uncomfortable and I need to learn how to confront what the enemy is trying to keep me in bondage to yeah I shared a link in the comments for those watching but on I had a friend on this podcast a few months back and he on he made a lot of mess when he was an addiction like arson charges and all kinds of stuff and ended up getting into that point where he was trying to live that life of just saying the next yes and when when he finally got into a position where he had to do some jail time he still wanted to serve in Ministry got out of jail wasn't expecting to do the jail time he felt that it all had been resolved came home finally got all that resolved and wanted to start serving in Ministry and him and his family get T-boned and have a terrible car accident like broken vertebrae lacerated liver all kinds of stuff and his story is in the comments but what ended up happening like being in this position of just saying yes to the Lord and trying to stay faithful through the car accident it wasn't their fault he got this massive settlement and this huge settlement that allowed him to go back and pay off the restitution for the arson charge he was supposed to be on probation his entire life and through this accident all things worked together for the good God allowed him to get this cash in his hand to go pay this restitution in that process this blew my mind I never I've known this guy for a long time John and I never heard this part of the story before but he was reminded of a job that he had for a very short stint at a bowling alley and he stole like two thousand dollars from the bowling alley and the Lord dealt with them while he has all this cash in his pocket you need to go make that right you didn't just steal from his business you took out of his kids mouths was the correction the Lord had given him and so he wrestled with whether to go down there whether to go confront him face to face because the last thing he heard from him was I don't ever want to see your face again and so he's in this battle of like how do I make this right how do I fix it and so he decided to do it face to face he drove down there and he got to share his testimony put two thousand dollars in the guy's hands and ask for forgiveness and make amends and be Jesus to that guy I don't know the rest of the story but on whether the guy was a Christian whether he was an unchristian but for those that are watching if you're interested that link is in the comments and you can catch that snippet of John's testimony we actually talked for an entire hour it was pretty powerful but I think that's forgiveness she said the reason I said that is because you said I've got to be willing to be uncomfortable right like I've got to be willing to be uncomfortable whether I feel that I'm right whether I feel that I'm wrong whether I can justify it I can't justify it like taking that step of forgiveness is being willing to like sacrifice my feelings in the moment make amends bear with my brother or my sister in Christ and forgive as the Lord forgave us because what it costs for Jesus to be able to offer our forgiveness was so uncomfortable wow and so the weight of what he had to go through to shed his blood to be able to extend forgiveness and offer a sacrifice that was worthy to cover our sins was painful it was humiliating he was naked before people on the cross and if we have that in mind I'm okay to give up a little bit of Pride for the sake of reconciling with somebody yeah dude that's so good because I pulled this up online it's about self-forgiveness it says forgiveness whether of someone else or yourself can mean you accept actions and behaviors that occur while willing to move forward forgiving yourself and mean letting go of the feelings and emotions associated with that what went wrong because it's it's so important dude because it's about your mental health yeah everything stepping into sales but just in life in general everything is developed here in the mind and then we begin to play out scenarios in our mind it's like oh that person's forgive me so I wanna just because you're Christian don't act Holier now because I know you thought about this if you're listening but somebody harmed you like that dirty mother what and like I wanna and it's like hold up they wronged you but now you trying to return evil with evil yeah so who's actually writing this scenario yeah what and so the thing is that this is where the danger comes into play because you mentioned this earlier if God has forgiven you and the person that harms you and you can't forgive them you're like the parable or the story that Jesus told about the man that was in debt and he said who's Gonna be more grateful I'm paraphrasing now but the one that was forgiven little the one that was forgiven much that's right yeah and then what he go ahead and do after he was forgiven he went ahead and put the other dude in bondage because he owed him money that's right and it got turned back on him and so we cannot put ourselves in this position of without excuse the reason why God allows things to happen in the manner in which they do and so that his love can be displayed through the heart and the vessel of the individual that he's rising up that's good yeah all an opportunity but yet if we do not walk by the spirit we will not understand the things that God is trying to accomplish in and through us but yet we make it so personal like why me why am I going through this why this person harm me I've never done anything to them all I've done was love them well I can tell you why what it's like if you really begin to look deep you'll find the answers and the key to the why but you cannot allow that person's wrongdoing to cause you to cut them off so abruptly that you never get the opportunity to reconcile that relationship yeah or to do your part if you will what it's like for me personally man like I'm not gonna mention names in situations but there's an individual that I know that is going through some extreme hurt and this person is angry with God because of what happened to her and because of the individual that doesn't want to admit the wrong that they have done she's unwilling to even reconcile the relationship and it's caused her to live a miserable life and she doesn't even know that her life is miserable because of these things and it's like man I wish I could just get it through your head that what you're doing to yourself is causing more damage than you just being humble enough to say what I forgive what and so let me ask you a question there though because I know I'm sure probably Crossing people's mind when you mention that on so in that situation when the person is not willing to admit the wrongdoing and we're eating ourselves up because they won't admit where they made the mistake we've got to extend forgiveness what about boundaries right so yeah what does reconciliation look like if they're unwilling to meet at that place when you offer forgiveness yeah man this is a hard one and the reason why I believe this is hard for me is because how many boundaries are a really good thing boundaries are very healthy and they're necessary but I see God that doesn't really have boundaries when it comes to us and this is why it's hard for me is because and please somebody correct me and give me pushback whether in the comments or even you Justin but I look at all the wrongs that I've done with God I know that we're not God so we can't necessarily administer the same in that regard but what I'm saying is that God doesn't like saying okay you messed up there for you're unwilling to admit these things I'm going to stop pursuing you or I'm going to put this boundary to where you can't come like the boundaries there I guess if you will like the veil had to be torn right so you have to come through Christ first but at the same time like God is always in pursuit of us but there is a level of boundaries I guess that he displays and so I guess I'm answering my own question because my wife talks about this all the time where she has to set boundaries with certain individuals in her life because how they harmed her even though she's forgiven them she loves them but in my mind I look at it and I'm saying are you truly forgiving them do you truly love them and accept them open with open arms again like or is your boundaries saying I don't want to have to deal with that anymore I've said it verbally and so that's enough yeah and so that's where I guess I wrestle because like the way I look at things and this is just my way of thinking sometimes is when you truly forgive somebody you don't hold that against them any longer it's not that you don't work you won't recall what happened but you don't hold that against them yeah because that gets hard man when you start to talk about some of the like some of the real deep-seated like physical abuse issues and all of that like and I do think and I just want to clarify this because I don't think Rob's suggesting that and I know he's not suggesting that we open ourselves up to be abused again right like there are clear boundaries in those regards I just wanted to clear that up because I didn't want anybody to think that what I'm saying and so Rob definitely isn't saying that but like I think for most offenses right like most offenses other than some of these real deep-seated physical where there is risk of physical harm like we've just got to extend the grace what I'm saying I and yeah it's like I don't know I can't remember the case but there was a case where a gentleman killed a family member and the family of the killed individual walked up to the person that killed his son or daughter I forgot what it was and embrace them with a hug yeah and loved on them I think that was the shooting in Charleston years ago okay if I remember yeah but the thing is that's what I'm talking about yeah that's what the Bible talks about when it comes to loving your enemy yeah because the thing is if you cast them astray what is the opportunity that you've missed to win them to Christ yeah and that's that's hard like that's I'm not saying that this is easy no but what I'm saying yeah but what I'm saying is you need to be so open to the idea of because that's what the father wants and this is what by walking by the spirit because some people can be Reckless and open themselves back up and get hurt again because of their stupidity and leaning on their own understanding but what is you have to be intentional to seek the father's face for direction and guidance and how to handle a situation God says there's wisdom in a multitude of counsel God has also given us an order of how to address harm and hurt within the church Matthew 18 and so we need to understand these things I'm not saying just be Reckless but what I'm saying is if we're intentional about our relationship with God often the father will reveal the way yeah and that goes back to like where we started in this whole conversation getting out of self-reliance right every single bit of this is a work of the spirit every single part of this is a god empowered thing it is not in me to want to offer forgiveness and extend it like or even receive it but when we walk by the spirit versus walking by the flesh then we begin to do things according to his principles and his precepts and that and it's not going to happen overnight but as we walk in the spirit we work out our salvation with fear and trembling understanding we're going to make mistakes we're going to get it wrong along the way but we're leaning in the Holy Spirit seeking counsel from other people then we're in a much better position to be able to do this correctly and appropriately and give and receive forgiveness liberally I don't know who's listening to this and like I'm not trying to like just have this vague thought but I can't walk away from what I've been hearing the Holy Spirit press upon my heart there's somebody that's going to listen to this or even this currently listening to this right now that needs to understand that they've been forgiven like you've been forgiven like I want to weep for you right now that's how much it hurts like you're in a bondage in your own mind and in your own body that you don't even know how to be free again because of all the harm and the hurt that you've done and so I just want like whether you message Justin or myself offline like I would love to be able to like just talk to you because I can feel the burden in the way that you're carrying yeah so that's good man I think we will leave it there I think that's a great place to wrap it up and on I'm gonna take a moment man I just want to pray for anybody that may be watching and we'll close out that this conversation that direction I know we talked about Rob before we finish on potentially moving this to like three o'clock here time which is six o'clock my time yeah so I think that's probably and I'll clarify I'll put a post up with a reminder for the next live but I think for those that are on the East Coast this will be more six o'clock so you're not trying to do this in the drive home or whatever middle your work day watching the show but on it's been a powerful conversation we covered a lot of stuff forgiveness is a deep topic I know for those who have been victimized the idea of extending forgiveness to other people is just is difficult it's hard on it stirs up a lot of emotions for those of us who have made a lot of mistakes and hurt a lot of other people and are living in Christ and we the Seer conscience is going away there's a potential for a lot of guilt and a lot of Shame and I just want to pray into each of those things as we wrap up so father we just come before you and we thank you God that we have truly been forgiven much we thank you for your sacrifice on the cross that lay down your life for us Lord so that we might live and walk in Freedom and Lord I just pray now for those who are listening that have ever either been the recipient of hurt and they're struggling extending that forgiveness I pray first off that they would just look at the work that you did on the cross the lengths that you were willing to go to get to them and Lord I know there's a lot of nuance in this conversation and I just pray that we would look at it as simply as possible and be willing to give Grace and give forgiveness Lord as it's been given to us ultimately knowing that our heart isn't to beat up on people that don't forgive because God we've all been there and for those who have maybe made some mistakes and have hurt other people and are dealing with the guilt and shame associated with that and maybe they've asked for forgiveness and they've not received a response and the person that they're trying to forgive is still bitter and frustrated and Lord we get it I pray that they would also have patience and Grace as well just know that their responsibility is just simply to extend the forgiveness and beyond that Lord once they've made restitution if they've been able to I pray that you've given the ability to just put it in your hands and trust that you're going to do the rest thank you for Rob I thank you for these conversations God and our ability and opportunity to engage with one another and Lord just continue to try to help people grow in this Faith as we're trying to grow ourselves it's in the name of Jesus we pray amen that's good bro we well thanks man I'm gonna hit end real quick hey thank you all for watching again if you enjoyed any of this conversation please like comment share do all the things to help spread the conversation and then as well if you feel led or compelled to support the show those links are in the comments as well so God bless you guys and I appreciate you