How to Be a Light in a World That’s Losing Its Way

Engaging in Live Dialogue

Well, Rob and I are getting together again, man. We enjoyed our conversation here on Facebook last week and just decided it would be fun to continue our conversations live. So, if you happen to be on here and we're in the middle of conversing or something pops up, please don't hesitate to leave a comment. We'll jump in and kind of answer some of that, answering some of the questions around the stuff that we're discussing. Rob, you hit me with a verse for our conversation out of 1 John chapter 2. Do you want to jump into that real quick and get some context?

Yeah, it's funny just because I want to share that verse first, but I think it's more fitting if I share Philippians chapter 2 first. Paul is describing some pretty intense stuff to the church of Philippi, and I think lately I've been in a place of trying to understand what it really means to be an image bearer of God. I've played a great role at showing the typical Christianity point of view through my actions and verbiage, but I really want to live out legospel to its fullest entirety. I know I won't be perfect at it, but I strive to be perfect at that.

The Challenge of Being the Light

How does the light respond to darkness? What is the difference between the light and the darkness? I think Paul touches on something that we're presently undergoing in today's culture. Starting at verse 14, it says, "Do all things without grumbling or disputing so that you will prove yourself to be blameless and innocent children above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life so that in the day of Christ, I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain or toil in vain."

Going from there and just stay with me, guys, jumping into John 1, chapter 2, I love what John says. Starting at verse 9, it says, "The one who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in darkness until now. The one who loves his brother abides in the light and there is no cause for stumbling in him." Light is obviously a key word in both of these passages. I want to challenge some people today and ask them to think about how they have been in the light. How can we be the light in this world, Justin Wright? Because there's so much going on, whether it's critical race theory, the homosexuality that you see, or the transgender influence. Kids are constantly being influenced.

We often look at it from a perspective of, "Oh man, let us tell them everything that they're doing wrong." But I think there’s a way to illuminate the darkness that they’re living in from a biblical perspective that has better effectiveness than the mere words we have to offer to them. Yeah, absolutely. I think we spend so much time cursing the darkness. Paul even reads it as "crooked," being blameless in a crooked and perverse generation. It's almost like this whole idea of the Word of God being timeless is true, right? Sin has been sin, no matter what generation it’s in.

I struggle with that a lot, man, because I see living in the culture that we live in today and trying to be intentional about living as a follower of Christ and letting my life shine, while also protecting my kids from all of this. It’s like, man, I want to shine, but I get so frustrated at some of the stuff that I see. Sometimes we can get so caught up in what the world's doing that we forget to just confirm what the scripture encourages us to do. It’s definitely a challenging moment.

I think we have to look at the darkness as an opportunity. The darkness was intended for a particular reason; it doesn't go without purpose. We often look at it and say, "Oh man, I can't wait for God to come back," which I agree with— I can't wait for Him to return. But I think we want everything to be perfect now. God has established things in His sovereignty and divine nature to bring forth this type of darkness to allow His children to bring forth His kingdom.

If everything was already illuminated, if there were light to everything already, then what would be the purpose of anything? We wouldn't need a Savior. God set it up exactly like this on purpose because He wanted to shed light on us first in our darkness. So allow the light to be shown in us first. God, illuminate the areas of my wickedness and darkness so that I can understand the grace thatYou've shown in my life and offer it to others.

Yeah, you know, because I preached on Pentecost in Acts 2:4 this past Sunday. When the Holy Spirit came to the earth, the very first thing that happened was that the Holy Spirit fell in the church, and then Peter preached this evangelistic message. A bunch of people came to Christ, but as I wrapped up the message, I really was just praying, "Look, the Holy Spirit's here to convict us of sin, guide us into truth, but empower us to be witnesses—empower us to shine our light effectively in this dark and wicked world."

Sometimes, I think we miss out. It’s so easy to focus on the darkness when we're not walking in power, right? When we're not walking in our God-given authority and we miss the purpose that God has put us here for. The world is going to fade away, and in the meantime, our job is to bring as many people into the kingdom as we can. I find that when I focus inwardly too much, and I'm not considering bringing other people along with me, that’s when I get all jumbled up. I’m frustrated by every news clip, every Grammy show that pops up, like Sam Smith and his devil outfit.

The church got so caught up and frustrated over that, like, "Oh, there are demons on stage." Well, they may be on stage, but demons have been out there forever. Paul was talking about this stuff in a book that’s timeless. It's often, "I wish they'd stop doing that. I wish they'd stop being in perversion and putting this stuff out publicly." But our mandate is to change that by evangelizing and mourning the lost, bringing people over one person at a time. We can't affect change in the entirety of culture overnight, but we can start to influence that change more, one person at a time.

Understanding Our Role in God's Plan

Chippewa said, "We are the light in whatever context we find ourselves in by His grace." Well, you know, the thing is that when you look at David in the Psalms, he says, "Your word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." David, a man after God's own heart according to scripture, had a desire for God to illuminate his path.

To understand where God is leading you, you must first understand what His word says about you. When you understand what God's will is for your life—not in the sense of your calling to be a pastor or work at the gym, maybe that is a fulfillment or desire of yours that God is leading you toward—God's will for your life is clearly found in the Great Commission. I remember when I was in Teen Challenge, I used to say, "Man, I just want to know what God's will is for my life." It's pretty plain and simple, but many times we haven't accepted it because it doesn't line up with what we want.

Until we die to ourselves, we're going to live in darkness and constantly stumble over these roadblocks, obstacles, and distractions in our lives because they take us away from the path that God has designed for us. The only way we'll know what that path is if we allow the light to be illuminated for us and if we allow ourselves to see clearly the way that God sees things. Yeah, we know that Chippewa just said, "Whatever context we find ourselves in, that's what we're going to find."

We're not hunting for this extra purpose, like the great perfect and all of it. A little over a year ago, I did a sermon series on vision at our church, trying to lay out the vision for the church. I remember in the very first sermon, I refused to give our catchy statement out. I just gave the Great Commission. The whole point was to define the vision of our church without offering a slogan, because this Great Commission is the baseline first. That is the global purpose of every church and every believer, and like you said, it's not just those in vocational ministry.

That’s where the struggle lies; we expect those in vocational ministry to be the ones who shine the most light. If I can just get them here to the pastor, if I could just get them to hear Evangelist X, Y, Z, whoever is popular of the day. We’ve ceded ground to the enemy because the everyday believer is not shining light in that context. It’s like, "Well, I’ve got to get them in a building." I love our church building, but light goes into darkness. I don’t turn a flashlight on in the middle of the day. I go to where the darkness is and turn that light on.

Yeah, that’s really good. To switch gears a little, I think it’s amazing. What did she say? "Wow, so true. There’s darkness in the world. We really need our pastor illuminating, otherwise we get lost." So help us, Lord. I think what's really amazing is that scripture speaks for itself. Paul says in Philippians 2, verse 13, just before he says, "Do all things without grumbling and disputing," he states, "For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." This is in context of who Christ was, and he informs us to be like-minded, like Christ.

He says, "Make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in intent on one purpose. Do nothing from selfish or empty conceit, but with humility of mind, regard one another as more important than yourselves. Do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others."

Yeah, that's good. It’s amazing how he says we need to stop focusing on developing others until we learn how to develop ourselves. When we become established in our relationship with God, it’s almost like a marriage. You're secure in your marriage, right? You’re not thinking, "Oh, my wife went out on a date with her girlfriends. Did she cheat on me?" You don’t have to think like that when you’re established firm, which ties back to last week and our identity.

Who are you? What is your identity? Who are you in Christ? When you can testify about who Christ is and who God is, it becomes easier to display that in our workplaces and in our daily lives.

Paul hits on it, right? He talks about doing nothing out of selfish ambition, but in lowliness of mind, letting each esteem others as better than themselves. Not only working out for his own interests, but also the interests of others.

We were at a prayer meeting in North Carolina a few weeks ago with the public at the church. It was a men’s prayer gathering where a bunch of guys came together, about 50 or 60 dudes, all just ready to go after God together. The pastor leading that up consistently reiterated, "Prefer your brother before yourself. Pray for somebody else first." That idea is vital.

Jesus said they will know you are my disciples by your love for one another. If we're going to lead people to a Jesus who is compassionate and wants to forgive people of their sins, we need to show compassion and look out for the interests of others first. That’s the difficult part, right? That’s where the rubber meets the road because Paul later talks about pouring yourself as a drink offering—completely emptying yourself. That’s been something I’ve been wrestling with, Rob.

The Cost of Discipleship

What is the price the Lord is calling me to pay for His kingdom? I was listening to David Wilkerson on this, and he was preaching a sermon called "The Cost of the Anointing." He was 75 when he preached this message and spoke about how, at every season of ministry, he would go before the Lord and say, "Lord, this is what I think I’m supposed to do."

The Lord would respond, "What, David? You know what it’s going to cost." That cost is intimacy and closeness with the Lord, being willing to pour Himself out for that next level of ministry, which happened all the way up until he was 75 before they began their work in Africa. I heard that message and it really caused me to reflect: "Lord, am I willing to pay the price for what You want me to do?"

That’s not just going to far out into the world; it’s also paying the price for my family. I’ve been called to love my wife as Christ loved the church, which means being willing to pour myself out as a sacrifice on their behalf, giving my blood for my family.

I trust that the Lord will use that. I’m glad you went on that rabbit trail because Paul says to the Galatian church that he labors in vain until Christ be formed in them. When David Wilkerson comes before the Lord and asks, "This is what I want to do," and God says, "Count the cost," there is a cost in salvation. Even though Jesus did what He did, it’s not free—it’s not free because there was a cost He had to pay: His life.

Not only did He pay His life and give us this free gift of grace, but there is still an exchange of dying to self. As we remove darkness from us, we inhabit more light. We often are unwilling, at times—I'm guilty of this—to remove our desires so we can take hold of God's desires. It’s like that illustration with the little girl holding onto a bear while Jesus kneels down, asking her to let go.

She’s unwilling to let it go, believing the pleasures of the darkness or the idols we have in our lives will give us greater purpose than what God has in store for us. As we learn to let these things go and realize that the idols we build—whether it’s pornography, our kids, or our jobs—if you hold onto those more than God, you won’t be able to see clearly what God is trying to show you.

Therefore, you will stumble, and you might even hate people because they cross your path and stop you from fulfilling your purpose, when all along it was God trying to be a detour to bring you back to Himself.

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Navigating Relationships and Spiritual Growth

has positioned people in our lives that ruffle our feathers, if you will. And often at times we take it the wrong way and then we display this hate. We display this hatred towards this individual. This dislike towards this individual is as if they're trying to attack you when the reality is it's like, "Bro, maybe God has positioned this person in your life to show you something bigger." Yeah, we used to call them fruit testers, right? Right, right, yeah, absolutely. I've got a few of those in my life, you know what I mean? Right, yeah. Brother, you're testing my spiritual fruit right now. And you know what's funny, right? My biggest fruit testers in my life, yeah, that's my biggest fruit tester in life. Whether you watch this, babe, or you don't watch this, just know that I love you, and I'll say it to your face because you know that. But yeah, that's my biggest fruit tester.

We were talking about that, and are on, actually not doing a diva together, and we're doing a diva right now on marriage. We were talking about that this morning—that the single biggest person that's going to contribute to your sanctification in your life is your spouse. You know, if you're married, the spouse is going to be the person that's going to contribute the most to your sanctification. That's why it's important to marry a follower of Christ, you know? And you know, that’s why the Bible gives us that warning, not to be unequally yoked, because you're either going to be going to the cross together or you're going to be pulling each other away from it, you know? I don't know that it's difficult to try to do that. And that's not really the topic of our discussion, but that fruit testing, man, that sanctification process comes through our spouses more than not. I know I'm as big as a fruit tester. There's no question.

The Importance of Intentionality in Our Faith

It's funny, right? I don't remember the lady's name that basically made the comment, but all of it points back to the light, man. Well, where the light of a word. And I want to be more intentional. I think that's the word that Danielle and I've been using a lot lately—being more intentional. I have an intentionality and purpose behind everything that we do, even this call right now. Like, what's the intention of this call, right? Like, you know, are my flesh desires like, "Man, I want to help this podcast launch this Facebook page and get tons of views," right? But like, if we just reach one person and they hear our words today, I feel like that's a bigger accomplishment, right? Yeah. Just having a thousand likes and no transformation, right? Because that's what we were purposed for—to see people transform, right?

So like, where I've been struggling—and I love your transparency, man—like, I feel like I've been doing others a disservice by not taking quality time away with the Lord. And so I know when I'm short with people, it's like, man, now I just have this label of Christianity like I'm wearing the shirt. Yeah. But I'm not really playing well, you know? Oh, that's a trash team. I can't, I can't. I’m not even supposed to wear this one anymore. This one's been canceled. Oh, yeah, yeah, you've been canceled. But you know, it's just one of those things where it's like, it's great. We want to be labeled and identified as Christians. Yeah, we don't want to do the work and will of the Lord.

Yeah, no, I posted about this on my personal page a few weeks ago—just a journey that the Lord's taken me on the last several months of like, taking me to these different places where He's spoken to me. These are fellowship and events with other people, you know, and life is busy. It's hard to take that time aside. But it's like, if I want my lamp to continue to burn, I have to keep putting oil into it, you know? And that's that part where we were talking about earlier—the cost, right? The cost of leading my family well? Well, my oil has got to be full, you know? I've got to be able to burn in front of them.

And what's that old statement? You know, we set our phone on fire and people come to watch us burn, you know? And what that burning comes at a pride. If it's not built in a place of prayer and authentic connection with the Lord, then it's not burning for Jesus; it's burning for our pride, and we're burning for our purposes. That goes back to that part of like, man, what is the cost? And am I willing to pay it? Am I sensitive enough to the Holy Spirit to hear when God's saying, "Hey, draw back a little bit and get close to me and let me refill you so that you can lead your life, your ministry, your family—everything—out of the overflow and not out of a place of deficit," right?

And it's easier said than done. Like, I know, when we said this last week, like, it's easy to get on here and just talk and say very declarative and challenging statements. But for anybody watching that jumped on, like, you know we battle. Like, we’re, you know, but that's part of having these godly friendships that we have; we're encouraging each other in the fight constantly, you know? And it's like, I think Rob, you and I had a season for like three weeks where we were calling each other just venting back and forth, like, "I'm not going on." And then one week he called me and said, "Hey, let's talk about what we're going through," you know? And, you know, but that's just real. My life is this whole process.

Like, we want the, what's up, Andrew Country? I can't call you Andrew. What am I doing? Country, that's my buddy. But, man, like, we want the compassion in the love and the grace of Jesus, and I'm so grateful for that because it's not a works-based salvation. But there is a sanctification process. There is a dying to self on the other side of it. My prayer constantly is, "Lord, allow me to be able to see that and see the call you made." Like we said, salvation wasn't free; there was a price. Jesus paid it, thank God. But my response, my reasonable act of service, as Paul said, is offering my body up as a living sacrifice. And when I do that, it’s crazy. There's one of my favorite statements forever: "He didn't call that radical; He called that reasonable."

Engaging with the Next Generation

He could have said, "Your radical act of service, right, is being a living sacrifice." But Paul said, "No, this is just reasonable. This is just a bare minimum for the faith." That's not radical. And it's in that place of living our lives poured out. That's where we shine. That's where we begin to see us. And I love that you just brought that up, man, because I think what's scary, right? Like, you know, especially the older generations—I'm sorry if I offend anybody here, but I'm trying to be very—I’m part of that generation. I’m trying to be very cautious of how I say this. I'm a Boomer in a Millennial’s body. Ah, right.

Well, I think the thing is, is that like, you know, the Gen Z, the younger people, they're evolving, right? They're growing. But I think there's a way that people can get tied into their traditions and begin to judge. Or I wouldn't even say judge, but they'll look at the individual through the lens of their upbringing, missing the opportunity to bridge the gap to reach them, to meet them where they're at, right? And so like now, you know, I was listening to a podcast, "South Side Ride," by a shout-out to KV. Awesome, awesome podcast. But they were talking about how our children are now being influenced by influencers. That's how people are being reached, you know?

And so how do we reach these individuals that are, you know, living in this dark world, right? But don't really know how to jive with the traditions of church? How can we be a light to them in this world? Does it have to do with—do we have to compromise? No, I don't think we have to compromise, but I think there’s a level and a way of being creative, as they mentioned on the podcast, to help reach people that are lost because at the end of the day, that's what it’s about—reconciling. Paul says that he has given us the gift of reconciliation, so we're to reconcile people back into relationship with God.

I think we should be like Paul. We should be a Jew to the Jew, a Gentile to the Gentile, you know what I mean? It’s like, I know not in its entirety—I'm not going to try to take that scripture out of context, right? It's a lot deeper than that. But in theory, man, how are we allowing our light to shine in somebody else's life to allow them to understand that they are living in darkness? Yeah, that's why I've always been one of those people that—like, I know that Christian celebrity culture is a thing, right? And there are some challenges that come with that, and the whole idea of platforms getting so big and people’s egos getting inflated and all of that.

But you just made the comment that people are influenced by influencers, right? And so I think part of that is like, even though, you know, like you said earlier, putting these podcasts out like we're doing—even if it's just one person, right, that we reach and we impact—all for the glory of God. And I think for me, that’s part of like, okay, where is the darkness, you know? And where do I need to shine my light the most? I can criticize social media all day, you know? But it doesn’t change the fact that it's a part of how we're going to be doing life for years, right? This whole internet thing is not going away.

So how do we know absolutely that our light can show up in those environments to where we can connect and reach folks who are, well, they call it now, "digital natives," right? Right. I grew up way back in the day before there was social media, right? Like, my first social media page was my MySpace account, you know? And that was early high school. I remember life without the internet; we had the internet, but it wasn't like it is today. And now I know what life is like with all of this. With the internet, yeah. It's such a different world.

I mean, but think about it—Jesus was the best influencer to this day. He has the most followers. But what makes Him different than many of the followers and influencers of people today is that His followers actually are living out the words of what He spoke, right? And so it kind of goes back to like, what are you saying to individuals? Are you crippling them? Are you paralyzing them and keeping them subjected to you? Or are you calling them higher than you and to reach more?

Yeah. And so that's what the light does. The light has the power to influence those that are in darkness, bring them into their presence, and call them out to do more, you know? And that's what Jesus did, man. His model, the way that He set Himself up—He didn't have to reach everybody; He was just called to twelve, man, you know? And He reached those twelve in a way that they caught His vision. They caught His purpose in life, man—to deny themselves, to take up their cross, and to follow Him. And so I think in the end, man, it's like, man, where do we have to deny ourselves today?

Yeah. Where is it that we need to deny ourselves that, as I mentioned earlier, we held on to that, you know? And so I know we had a couple of comments, man. I think it's a rhythm. Yeah, no, I popped a couple of them up. Chippo said, "Stir true, be intentional about every step we take, where we create choices and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit guiding us." And then of course, Country popped in, "My dude keeps shining doing what God has called you to do. You're liked many." And that's when I called him out. And he said, "I love you, brother." Oh, nice. Yeah, that's my boy, man. We were Team Challenge hallmates from way back. Like, we were in TC together—we were roommates.

Oh, wow. Yeah, years ago. And so, man, I'm going to ask you the question again that I did last week: what is on— I think this is where my heart has been recently—what is God doing in you right now? I'll answer it in a few minutes.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. I think what God is doing in me is helping me get my home in order. Peace. As I mentioned earlier, He's called me to be more intentional about how I pull into my marriage, my children, and to stop focusing on trying to build everything else outside of my home first, but build everything in my home first, and everything else will come. And so there's a big inventory that I've been taking. God has really just been stripping me, you know, of limited beliefs, stripping me of past hurts—pain from the absence of a father, you know? And so it's scary because my kids are getting older, and I blinked an eye and my oldest is going to be seven next week. And so that's pretty intense.

And so it's like, man, like, where has time gone? But, you know, I was reminded earlier today, which was awesome, because I used to write on my mirror in my living room where we were staying—or about to move out of—I am statements, and we were grateful for every single morning with my kids. And I went on like this hiatus and stopped doing it for a while, you know, just had a bad routine in my own mind. I’m like defeated because of my own personal sins and my God, man, I'm not worthy enough to even do these things anymore. And my son posted questions to Dad, "Why aren't we doing this? Like, we haven't been doing our I ams or what we're grateful for every morning."

So this morning we're sitting down, we're making breakfast, and he gets the expo marker himself. And he says, "Dad, I'm going to do I ams and start writing them down." Yeah, that’s great! And he’s like, "I am brave. I am truthful." He just starts writing them down. And he's like, "Dad, what's yours?" You know, "What's your I am?" And he asked me, "What am I grateful for?" And so like, even though we make the mistakes that we make as individuals, our light is still shining—even in our darkness, God's light is still shining. That’s really just imagine how much more it will shine if we learn to be obedient to His voice.

Yeah. That’s really good. You know what I mean? And so like, I didn’t realize how much I’ve been impacting him because there's been resistance with him and our parenting lately and it's been annoying, and it’s been really taking a toll on both NL and I. But then you have moments like that, and God just reminds us—and He's just like, "I'm doing it through you. So stop trying to focus on it being about you." Yeah. It's not about you, but it's about you establishing these principles and these standards within your home that will bring about the fruit that needs to come in due season.

Yeah. Yeah, I heard somebody say a long time ago: "What we do in moderation, our kids will do in excess." And I thought, I mean, again, I know there’s probably a lot of nuance to that statement, but I heard it one time in passing, and it’s always stuck with me, you know? Like, wow, good and bad. You know, that could go either direction. You know, it’s kind of terrifying.

Yeah. Yeah, tell me about it. I think for me right now, man, I'm at this place where I'm like, I'm trying to get clarity—the verse that's been on my heart is Ephesians 5:16 where he talks about making the most of your time, you know? And you take advantage of each opportunity and use it with wisdom and diligence because the days are filled with evil. And, you know, I've been on this path, man, with this, this, that it in business, pastoring, you know, doing a little bit of the podcast, you know, doing a little bit of everything.

And I think I’m really just trying to find out like, you know, where's the Lord in each of those places? And how can I make the most of my purpose, my core purpose—like we were talking about love and jeep witnessing and bringing people to Christ in the middle of every single one of those? But then also, like for me personally, making sure my family is not sacrificed on the altar of ministry or my business opportunities. Like that's been a big one for me—constantly holding those boundaries up and making sure that they are growing, they’re being loved, they’re being discipled and raised up, and they’re not just constantly in my world, right? That I’m slowing down enough to see their worlds and see where they’re at.

Yeah. So thank you. Sorry. Yeah. Property manager. Like, you hungry? Yeah. Yes. That’s good. No, that’s good, dude. It’s like, thank you for sharing that, man. I think it's really important just as you said, you know, don’t offer up your family. I think our wife always said this, and you know, I’ve heard this from many other people, but your first ministry, if you guys have kids, children, and you're married, is your home. Yeah. I think we as a people, we want recognition, we want to be seen, we want to be noticed, we want to want the label, right? Like that’s what society has kind of instilled within us, right?

But don’t let the world be a light in your life—let God be a light in your life. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, I heard Kremer say on the podcast a few weeks ago he was talking about that—on, we have two things to give: blood and oil, right? And our blood, our sacrifice, belongs to our family, and our oil belongs to the church. And he said the problem is that a lot of times we flip those. We've given our blood to the church. We're bleeding for Jesus's bride, but Jesus didn’t call us to bleed for His bride. He called us to bleed for our family, and he said, "And then we bring the oil, our gifting, our calling, home, and our family." I know to do it that, you know, because we should be sacrificing and laying our lives down for them and not...

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Reflecting on the Power of Ideas

his statement, but you get the context. And that was, right. It's pretty powerful on, I enjoy listening to that guy talk, man, well, Rob, I won't hold you much longer, bro. I know you're busy today. I appreciate you jumping on anyways, even though you're like you're in the middle of moving. Like, yeah, man, that in time, dude, have a conversation with you, bro. Yeah, man. It's awesome.

Looking Forward to Future Conversations

Yeah. I look forward to kind of doing these things weekly, once again, guys, I'm going to share my two-piece, but please share comments like whatever, even topic suggestions, we would love that. Today was like going to win. We didn't even know what you were going to talk about today, but the spirit led and so that's cool. It's awesome. Yeah.