It Wasn’t the Addiction - It Was My Attitude That Kept Me Stuck

The Hardest Part of Recovery

When you're going through it, the hardest part, I tell people all the time, the hardest part is dealing with yourself. It's not the withdrawals; it's dealing with yourself and all the mess that you had packed in there for all those years. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's Pastor Justin Franich here, rebuilding life after addiction. And thank you for jumping in. And, man, I got a couple of guests with me today. I got Jesse and Ashley here. How are you guys doing today? We're doing great.

The Importance of Friendships in Recovery

So we just finished some class, man, here at the center, and we're going to be on... We talked about personal relationships with others for the last several days. It felt like a marathon session of teaching, but I really wanted to talk today about how to build great friendships. And I think when it comes to recovery and this journey out of addiction, one of the things that I've kind of held on to, and I think I said it seven times in class the last two days, is that your friendships will make or break you. I'm so passionate about that in regards to encouraging folks to really evaluate the great relationships and friendships in their life because I think it's going to determine your success or failure when it comes to staying the course.

The Impact of Positive and Negative Relationships

So maybe let's just start out, man, and just kind of ask you guys, jumping into this, if you've ever had a friendship that has either impacted your life directly in a positive or negative manner, either way, let's kind of kick off the conversation maybe with a story. You know, if you guys—either one of you guys want to jump in.

Yeah, I had some relationships that affected me in a positive way. I had people in my life, pastors and people in programs I was in. They showed me the way that they were walking; they were leading by example. And they were holding me accountable, and as a man, I didn't like to be held accountable. I was like, well, they're just picking out all my flaws, but they're really trying to help me.

Oh, negative too—negative as well. Friends and family, where I had relationships with them, and they were doing things that were basically not in Jesus. Right. And by the things, by their actions and the way they were doing it, it was hard to have faith around them.

Navigating Early Faith Experiences

How far along in your faith journey were you during that season when you were starting to experience some of that? Oh, I was still a babe. Okay. I was still a baby. I still wanted to be cool and fit in with everybody. But at the same time, I still wanted to follow Jesus. I wanted to have one foot in and one foot out. And that could really pull the wind out of your sails, can it? Yes, it really can.

You're excited and you get this stark reality that not everybody's as excited about Jesus as you are. Yeah. And almost like it's just like opening a gift at Christmas as a kid, and you get it and you're really excited about it. And you're like, hey, play this game with me. No. And like it's just like you, you know, the whole thing just deflates. But yeah, man, Jesse, what about you? You have any friendships that have impacted your life in positive, negative, and what?

The Struggles of Toxic Friendships

Yeah. Mine's been mostly negative, you know, growing up. Everybody I hung out with was mainly on the street. And you know, they never had anything good to say towards me. It's always, hey, man, let's go get high. You know, always leading me in the wrong direction. You know, I wanted to, you know, go do the right thing. But, you know, I was trying to fit in and do right. And, you know, they were supposed to be my friends. I was like, they ain't no harm to it. Like, they gon' make sure I'm alright. So I would go do what they did, you know. And it just led to one thing after another, you know. It's been mostly negative, you know.

Shifting to Healthy Relationships

After a while, after I got older, you know, I figured out they weren't my friends. Yeah. So, Ashley, you said you had two different examples that you shared. So, there were some times where you had people who were speaking life into you and then there was a time in your life when you had folks that were almost yanking the wind out of your sails. So what shifted? Right to get from that point where, you know, you had the people, you kind of were able to silence those voices and start to listen to the proper... Like, walk us through that process.

I think, really, it was just like experience in the longer than I walked with the Lord. And actually, it took for my dad to pass away. He was a great, great example and a real model for me. He was the chairman of the church, and he passed. And then I came to a realization that, hey, I need to get this thing right no matter what nobody else thinks. And just that alone was like, well, I don't care what nobody else says. Whether it's cool or not, I know this works for me, and it's been working. Every time that I was listening to the right people in my life, my path was so much better than what it was when I was trying to please people in the world. And it was night and day.

Understanding the Value of Accountability

What is that about that, like, man? We like to pretend that we're self-reliant. And we don't care what everybody else thinks. Like, we've got this rugged... We can have this rugged individualism really more, like, outwardly. Yeah, you know, she's meeting us in the world. I don't care what everybody else thinks. Forget about it. No, at all. But like...

Yeah, we really do care. Right. Like you said, you were talking about your friends. Yeah. Man, they got me. You know what I'm saying? I felt like, yeah, they could've been my friend. Yeah. It's crazy. It seems to be experience that kind of knocks us down.

Future Friendships and Lessons Learned

So as you start to look at friendships going forward, man, how has your past experiences that you share—with Jesse, I said most of your experiences have been negative—what are you looking at going forward? Good. You know, I see that myself, you know, in the future, you know, being a man of the Lord now, you know, and trying to help people that have been in the situation I used to be in, you know? And since I was in that situation, I'd be able to help them out of it. Like, look, man, I took this path that you're on right now. Let's try this, you know, because I know what's at the end of that road, you know? So before you even get started, let's stop right here at the crossroads and let's turn around and go back. So I can help you get on a different path here, because this is not the road you want to take. You might think you want to, but it ain't.

Overcoming the Risk of Relapse

So do you struggle at all, man, or fear a little bit, like the risk of going back? No. No, not at all. So why? I'm tired of it. I don't want anymore of it. It's just a lot of tough, you know, dark days and nights I've been through; it's just ain't fun anymore. What I thought used to be cool and fun is no longer cool and fun anymore. Especially since I've experienced the good side of what I'm going towards now, I like it better than what I used to do in the past. That's good.

Recognizing the Influence of Role Models

Ashley, you said on, as you went forward, like after losing your dad, right, and kind of starting to look for those mentors or strong leaders, right? And what was the Lord doing in you during that season? Like, man, what were you starting to see in other people, you know, that really started making you look out for healthy friendships or healthy connections, you know?

I actually started seeing what they were trying to do the whole time. They were trying to help me and tell me things that were for my good. Even though I didn't want to hear it, it was what I needed to hear. A lot of these role models were male figures. They were older. And so since I didn't have a dad telling me these things, I mean, I was looking for answers through other people, and these were positive role models in my life.

The Impact of Healthy Friendships

I was like, well, maybe they're right. Maybe I should try this and listen. So listening to them definitely helped me see things different and get a different opinion and the perspective on what a Godly man should be and who a real friend is.

Keeping good friendships, man, I heard a quote. I share a funny quote all the time, and I don't know who I stole it from. I stole it from somebody. I didn't make it up. But it said, everybody talks about Jesus doing miracles. But nobody talks about the miracle Jesus having 12 friends in his 30s. And like, it's funny, but it's also like, oh, that's not funny. You know, it seems, it seems whether it be busyness of life, whether it be personal struggles, every season of life has different challenges.

The Danger of Toxic Connections

And it almost is like in every season, the enemy either wants to keep us connected to toxic and unhealthy people that are going to pull us down or calls us to drive away from everybody and into isolation, right? And so, like, how vital, I mean, how do you see healthy Godly friendships for you moving forward in this recovery journey? Right? In order to be able to stay the course, it's like, it's one thing to say that I know I should have them, right? But like, how vital do you see that as a part of your success or are you still kind of working it out and getting there immensely?

You know, you can be completely open and honest on that one. Well, I think it's very vital. At times, I feel like it's not because I get in my own way a lot, but I think it's very vital because if I go out there and I don't have an accountability group, I mean, it's very likely I could fall. I think somewhere it says that—and I'm paraphrasing this—where lack of counsel, the people will fall. And so, I think it is important to keep myself surrounded by those types of people just to keep me stable and grounded, and just to have somebody to talk to and call along.

The Balance of Friendship and Accountability

Yeah. So, you should send something there. Just know what I want to hone on this. Someone gets to you, and it's just said Jesse, but we are—and you're welcome to chime in anytime too—but like we were, we talked about in our curriculum today, like becoming a good friend. So like, there's always been access. I would assume it sounds like in your life, you always had the opportunity.

Yes. I think sometimes it's easy to slip into victim mode. Nobody cares about me. I don't have access to anybody. Nobody's looking out for me, you know what I'm saying? There's nobody's trying to come help me more than it is saying. And I've had access to all of this, like the protocol, and I've absolutely squandered it.

The Consequence of Squandered Opportunities

Right? And that realization almost can really make us start pursuing—I mean, it was a big thing because once I started using it, I've seen how beneficial it could be. But when I didn't use it, I watched how my life got down, life got down into a downward spiral. And even like sometimes it's crazy to me because sometimes I feel like I don't need it, but that's when I needed the most. Yeah. And it's very detrimental.

It's like the product—I mean the protocol, but the older side. The one at least was just like, I'm done with you, giving you my stuff. The other one got angry when the son came home and threw the party. Like he was in the home and didn't realize what he had.

Reflecting on Personal Experiences

Did you have something? Yeah. I think, you know, like he was saying, you know, if it's there around you, you know, if you got an old pastor, you know. And if you don't keep that good group of friends with you, you know, guide you down, because like you said, everybody falls. But if you ain't got that good group of friends with you, you know, they keep you away from, you know, the bad habits like that. But if you're, let's say you're out in a restaurant or something, and you see somebody over there got something, and if you ain't with that big group of friends, it's most likely you can walk over and be like, hey, man, I'm trying to hang out with you. I see what you're doing, you know? Like, let's go hang out. And even though dude don't know you from Adam and Eve, he's gone by. I, man, let's go. Let's roll out, you know?

Building Healthy Friendships

So like, I think it is good being official with you do keep that good group of friends with you. It says somewhere in the book about a man should not be alone, you know? And I believe in that fully. It's always good to have somebody around.

The Importance of Daily Practices

So let's talk practical. So we talked about the heart and God changing some stuff at us. But like, just really practically speaking, like, I mean, what are you doing now? What are you looking at doing in the future to really focus on growing stronger friendships? You know, for the benefit of your recovery, like, what does that look like day by day right now versus, you know, we talked about the past and kind of some changes that happened then, but like looking forward, like, Jesse, specifically for you, right?

You know, I can't go back, but again, how? Like, right, what are you doing going forward? You know, I'm doing forward for a better in myself is I'm keeping a count of all joys, you know, and I'm studying more, you know, with the Lord and everything, keeping him there. But mostly, it's just trying to make sure I'm doing something that I know that ain't going to take me back, you know?

The Role of Support and Community

Like, like the table, you know, going to table worshiping and stuff like that. Like, I think that's a good beneficial to helping me, you know, keep my mind off of stuff like that and just keep on moving forward. And eventually, that's just—the past is just going to leave, you know? And it ain't going to be there no more.

The Challenge of Isolation

Yeah, I'm curious too, Ashley. Like, I know I'm—that's really good, man, by the way, I didn't mean to just breeze on that. You had that distinct... When I was in my meth, a meth life and all that, I was not very friendly to people. Like, you know, I don't know how to do that. I thought everybody was a fed, right? You know, like, every black SUV, you know, you're looking out the windows, all that stuff. But like, like, you guys are both—we have great conversations, we laugh, joke around the house.

How was that? Like, we talk about being a good friend and being friendly? I mean, how were you guys when you were in active addiction? Like, were you still alive in the party? You still fun, you know, and able to engage with people? Or did you disconnect? Like, what did that look like?

The Contrast of Personal Experiences

I was the complete opposite. I was angry all the time. Every little thing, like, triggered me. And I was not social. Like, if you see me somewhere on the streets, I wouldn't wave at you. I would isolate; I would stay to myself. But one thing that was funny about it was, is that I would never try to drag anybody into my mess. Like, if I was in active addiction, I wouldn't try to surround myself with people who were in active addiction. I would go home and do it by myself. Because I knew how my attitude was, that I was easily triggered by anything. My attitude went from zero to 100 real quick.

And like, coming out of that is, it's like when you're going through it, the hardest part, I tell people all the time, the hardest part is dealing with yourself. It's not the withdrawals; it's dealing with yourself and all the mess that you've dealt with for all those years.

Getting to the Core of the Issue

But once you get through that, and well, once I get through it, I’m probably one of the best people you can ever meet. And I'm enjoying that position. Nice to be around. You know, that's such a good point, though. It's like, it's not the drugs that are hard to quit. It's the fearfulness terrifying to realize, like, what's underneath? It's such a good point, man. Like, after you stop using, now I've got to face me.

Reflecting on Changes

Yeah. And that sucks. Yeah. It's so tough. Are you, Jesse, how were you, like, prior to you? I was the life of the party, man. That's not a surprise. I always wanted to show off of how much I had flashed the money, you know. I tried to get as many people I could to the party, you know. Like, I wanted my name to be out there, like, hey, if you're trying to go down, go holler at Jesse. But at the same time, as I got everybody around, I'm sitting in the back room like, man, this dude over here is trying to set me up right now, man. I need you to go holler at him, tell him, search him, make sure. But, you know, like, I was known, you know, like, he was scared to run out. I was for sure.

Understanding Boundaries

So that's a good segue though, then to boundaries, right? Because, like, so, so it actually almost the extrovert and introvert, right? Difference is, I identify as an introvert, like, you know, which is crazy. I love speaking, but I don't mind speaking publicly, but like, it's the same thing. Like, podcasting is even a stretch. Yeah. Because I, class is fine when we get, when I have to pause and answer questions. I lose my mind.

So, I can engage in conversation, but like, um, so that shift, that dynamic shift, right? And so, the extroverted nature, I'm assuming, I'm pointed in the right direction, be a huge blessing, right? So, with you, Jesse, kind of being extrovert to extrovert, right? Like, let's talk about, it's a great conversation for boundaries. Yes.

So, how we talked about boundaries today and like on, are there any boundaries that you recognize that you need to put in place in order to be able to ensure that these friendships that you develop are going to be healthy?

Defining Boundaries with Actions

Yeah. My, my most boundary is, my main one is, is, um, the way they act. You know, it all—somebody explains itself without telling themselves by their actions. And that’s my big one, you know, like, if they're acting like a certain way, you know, like—not by judging, but, you know, like—acting like...

No, it's okay to judge them. I mean, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But like, if they act in like, you know... I'm judging you right now. Well, you know, yeah. I was like, hey, look, man, you go have fun. And all that sounds great, you know, but I just think I'm a hang back, you know? I got something else to do, you know? But, um,

Taking Steps Back

So, have you typically been, as I have a person that you're pretty quick to jump in? And since you're hanging back to see... Yeah, yeah. I normally, I'm like, if somebody mentions something, I'm like, hey, let's get a pool, man. So you're taking a bite before you even consider it, right? I thought this was a peach. Yeah.

Well, you know, yeah. I was like, hey, let's just jump off this rock without even asking how deep the water is. I'm going ahead first. You know, like...

Realizing Self-Awareness and Growth

It's a good illustration. Yeah. And that's good self-awareness, though, right? Yes. And that's like what you were just told my minute ago. I'm packing everything. Yeah. That's the work of recovery. It is. It is unpacking who we are. It gets difficult sometimes, though, Justin. It does. It does. Like, there'd be days that I'm like, man, why am I even doing this? Like, it's so much easier just to do this. But, then that's when I catch myself. I'm like, no, wait. I'm here for a reason. I don't want that no more, you know? But, it does get tough sometimes for real.

The Journey Ahead

Yeah. It's really great. Yeah, it does. It’s that. I mean, it's going to be, it's a lot of grace and a lot of grit. Right. Yeah. And it's the hard work. And I think a lot of times we end up at places, especially being, you know, very spirit-filled, you know, Jesus, Jesus-chasing people, like, works going to happen at the altar call, and we expect like a miracle moment.

But work has to happen after the altar call, too. Yeah. You know, and that's the part, I think, even the risk of sometimes being more charismatic in our faith is it becomes another high that we're chasing. And on, actually, I want to ask you, specifically, man, on, you shared—you used to very distinct words about spiritual mentors, people speaking life into you, you know, very, very Christian-ized, Christian needs to call it language-right in that regard.

So, how those friendships, man, helped you grow spiritually. Right? Thank God. I'd love to have you unpack that a little bit. They really helped me in a way where I realized that addiction wasn't my problem. It was my attitude. And I was like, how can it be my attitude when I got a problem with this drug here? But the attitude was the root problem of it all. And I had an anger problem. And my mentors helped me through that.

The Role of Mentorship in Recovery

Whether it was giving me discipline and making me write half the Bible. But in it, I was thinking how stupid it was, but it helped me grow. Just keeping me in the word. And not to you write something that thousand times, it's going to sink in. And not only that, they would call me out. And, like, say if I was just doing something that I didn't think was wrong, they would call me out on it. And I was like, man, why would they do that? But they cared enough for me to call me out on whatever I had going on.

And it's like, just like you were using the illustration of the prodigal son, he walked away from his father. And I guess he didn't want to listen to him anymore. And he went chasing after the things of the world. But he realized and came back to his senses and came back to the father because he knew there was something there that he needed. And everything that he needed was at home the whole time.

The Challenge of Returning to the Father's House

And so growing up in the church and having all these spiritual people around me all the time, I knew there was something there. So when I walked away, I was like, well, it was fun for a season. Like they say, sin is only fun for a season. And when I came back, I was like, well, this is where I'm supposed to be. Even though it's hard and it's tough and there's things that I don't want to hear and things that I don't want to do, I know this is where I'm supposed to be.

Acknowledging the Personal Struggles

I don't mistake its son. And I can't say this for sure because I've never not grown up in the church and went and found Jesus not knowing anything about him. Like you shared your story, right? That you like never knew. You had never been involved in church before.

It's all in my perspective, my estimation. It almost seems easier to start there than it does to have grown up in a slip away, and it's a good thing. It's not a bad thing because there's no humility that it takes to come running back to the father's house and having to throw yourself before that, I blew all the money to give me dead. Like just made me a servant. I'll be good with that. And it really takes almost like a deep level of brokenness.

The Journey of Recovery

It's hard. It's a hard journey back. And we were talking about emotional boundaries earlier. So you mentioned anger. And what does that look like? Like, how did you say to help you deal with your anger problem? Basically, it's funny because the way they worked was that they would try to pull it out of you. And I would be the type that would just let things build up and build up and build up.

And I can remember it clearly today—we were having choir practice. And I used to sing the loudest choir practice just because. And one night, he spoke up and was like, you're not singing. He was like, you need to sing. And called me out in front of everybody. And I just blew up. It was something so small. And then afterwards, he came and talked to me. It was like, you see how small that was and you just blew up over it.

Recognition and Change

So I see what your issue is. And I was like, yeah, it was. And it was just, I don't know what they would call it, but on this, just where you hold everything in. And then, yeah, just do it. And once he said that, I'm back going. And I realized I was like, well, maybe it is an anger problem.

It's really good. Yeah. It's on— I mean, a good coach does that though, right? Yeah. They don't— I mean, there are some things you just do reps up. But there are some things the coach is going to have you do reps up because they know it's an area of weakness. Yep. And they're going to put you to work in that area of the field. And you know, and on, man, it's definitely—I wasn't an athlete, but I've watched in the sports movies, and I'm an expert.

Wrapping Up the Conversation

Yeah. So there's that. You know, so Jesse, what is on, man, what's one lesson you've learned about relationships that you wish you knew sooner? So let me frame this question up because this is how I do this in this conversation. In my—I had a studio in my old house before we sold it. And on the top of my file in cabinet, one of my favorite movie trilogies is Back to the Future. I love that movie trilogy. So I went out and did what any responsible adult does and bought the Lego DeLorean because I had to have it, right?

And, man, I love that movie. And so I built it. But one of the things of Jesse today, right, this is the way I like to frame this question. I heard somebody else say it this way. It's powerful. Jesse today could hop in the DeLorean, go back and give Jesse five years ago, right? Say for, for the first time being incarcerated for all that until that Jesse, everything—tell that Jesse how to handle relationships knowing everything that Jesse knows now. What would that piece of advice be?

Learn how to trust them. You know, trust them, you know, how to be good to him. Really a whole lot, you know? How to love him, you know? Like, I didn't know what love was then. But now, if I could go back, I would tell him, you know, this is what love is. This is how you can love him, you know? And I would definitely change that for sure, you know?

The Impact of Reflecting on the Past

I asked that question not because I think trying to change the past is a useful exercise, because obviously you can't—there's two reasons I asked that question. Number one, introspection, our answer. Number one, it can help us see how far we've come. Yes. Number two, it can identify some of the areas that we still need to work on, right? Because the things we're speaking to sometimes, it almost on—it's us vocalized and still what we see is a place that need in our lives.

And so we're even speaking to ourselves, you know, today. The other reason I do that is for folks that are listening, right? For people that are going to hear parts of your story, even just in our short conversation today and feeling themselves right where you're at. And the way that I do that is like, there's a lot of Jessies out there. A whole bunch of them. And it made craziest today homeboying class. I'm not going to say his name because he had a volunteer be on camera.

But like 17 years old and signed up for the military. His parents said like, that was me. Yeah. Like, I just like I had this like moment, even just hearing that little piece of his story. I'm like, I have never. Yeah. I've never met it. We've been doing Teen Challenge 15 years. Anybody else that had signed military papers at 17 years old. And it was just like one of those God moments.

Sharing Encouragement and Advice

And so, Ashley, I want to ask you a different question. What advice would you give to someone who feels stuck? So you on, you talked a lot about kind of this tension of on having the advice available to you, having the relationships available to you, but almost being stuck and unable to kind of take advantage of that. And so what would you speak to somebody, a man who maybe just feels stuck? Like I don't, I can do this alone. Yeah.

I don't need anybody else. I better off, I'm protecting everybody else by being away from them because I'm going to be angry anyways. Yeah. Right? Like what would you say to somebody that's in that position? Well, I would definitely tell them that if more than one person is saying the same thing that they probably should do it. Just surround yourself by Godly people and just listen. Listening is one of the biggest things because a lot of times we don't want to listen because we're so quick to speak and to say something.

The Invitation to Openness

But if we listen twice as much as we speak, we probably can receive something and just be willing to learn something from anybody because you can learn from everybody. Yeah. No matter how old you are or how young you are, and some of the people I've learned from, some of the most profound things were younger than me, and just taking the time to listen to them helped me a lot.

The Value of Connections

Yeah. And I mean, those lies too, right? I'm better off alone. Yeah. Like, man, and we may be able to figure it out, you know, for a short term. But I think getting on the other side of it and realizing like the value, like I, you know, I left, I stopped working for Teen Challenge for a little bit, 2019. And I had been telling students for years, you're going to miss the brotherhood. So, many of you leave. You're going to miss the brotherhood.

And I said it over and over and over. And sure enough, the minute I stopped working for Teen Challenge, it stopped being around students all the time. And what was a stress to me in one moment became a major deficit. Like I left and I realized like, ah, man, I enjoy hanging around there so all the time. You know, I say full, you know, not condescending.

Unpacking the Journey of Friendship

Right. And that regard, man, just like the connection with people. It's so true. And you don't miss it. You don't miss it. You don't know how much you're going to miss something to gain guide anymore. Yeah. And I say full too, because I was one of the fools too in the mountains. Yeah. We're all fools together. Yeah. But I have, yeah, man. Well, I appreciate you guys sitting down and chatting. I know this conversation was unscripted on plan.

Yeah. I'm just kind of going off the cuff talking about friendships. But, man, I hope, I hope you guys enjoyed the discussion. I just want to encourage you again, if you're on New Year, hit the like button, subscribe button, and down in the comments. There's some information. If you need help, don't hesitate to reach out to Teen Challenge. Or you can support the program as well below. But, man, we appreciate you guys. And give us some feedback. How are your relationships? Maybe there's a struggle or something you're dealing with.

Closing Thoughts on Recovery and Friendship

Or maybe you got some advice. Maybe we missed something. And give us some feedback on how you can build better friendships. Hey, God bless you guys. Thank you for watching. Ashley, Jesse. Thank you guys for talking. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Appreciate it.