Recovery Doesn’t End at Rehab - Here’s What Comes Next

The Struggle of Finding Purpose After Recovery

They get that revelation of freedom for a moment, but like you said earlier, the world seems to pull them back in, you know? And so I believe they can have that encounter. They can make that decision in a program to make Jesus Lord but then begin to slip. And so, man, I just, I would love to hear you speak to that and maybe give your opinions on how you would encourage somebody coming right out of the program, you know, to be able to keep Jesus at the center and find that sense of purpose. I just feel like everything in our lives have a purpose. Even if it's things that happen in our lives behind our own bad decisions where we go through, like you and I did, a lifetime of pain and misery from drug addiction, I believe that even that God can use. God doesn't waste anything. And personally, I believe anyone that has come to Christ the way that we have have a purpose to bring others that way.

Introduction to Project Hope

Jeff, I'm excited to have you on tonight, man. How are you? Doing well, Justin. It's good to see you. Yeah, you too, man. So you are in Texas now. You're leading a ministry called Project Hope. What is Project Hope? Well, Project Hope is probably a first cousin, I would call it, of Teen Challenge. We do the Teen Challenge curriculum. We're a one-year Bible faith-based, point him to Jesus addiction recovery ministry. And it's set up really similar to Adult and Teen Challenge as you know it.

Structure of the Program

Yeah, that's awesome. And now, does your program work with men, women, both, all the above? Well, our Project Hope is the men's side, and we have a sister program called Saving Grace. And so, we have three men's centers and five women's centers. So we have a total of eight addiction ministries in Texas, Arkansas, Florida. We have a women's home in Tennessee and another women's home in Mississippi. Oh, fantastic. Wow, man. That's awesome. So I kind of started there because as we jump into those conversations tonight, I just wanted to give some context for your experience in working with people that have gone through this struggle.

Jeff's Journey in Ministry

I mean, of course, you've got your own journey. You've been there. But I mean, how long have you been working directly after addiction, after your journey, you know, kind of came to fruition? And you got free and got saved and really heading toward the direction of ministry? How long have you been working with addicts and those dealing with life control issues? Well, I went into Teen Challenge as a broken man coming out of a 28-year addiction in 2013, and honestly, bro, I never left. I mean, my intentions when I came in, if you listen to the testimony, was to learn how to live without getting high and go back to work. You know, I was a welder by trade. But of course, just like it happened for you, I'm sure the Lord arrested my heart and He grabbed a hold of me.

The Importance of Purpose and Discipleship

And honestly, I've just committed my life to this cause. And so, the short answer would be about 10 years. So let me ask you a question. That's a great segue to that kind of the first question of really where I wanted to go with this conversation. So you got free, hit the ground running. I've never left TC, have been involved in ministry of some sort since coming out of TC. And no relapses from what I know of your story, right? You stayed the course. You've been serving Jesus since all this happened. But from our experience of working with people struggling, kind of coming out, not everybody finds that sense of purpose, right? And they end up struggling and kind of going through the lakes and all the struggles coming out of TC.

The Challenge of Staying on Track

Like what do you think it is that sets that apart for those who come out and really find their purpose and get focused and start to build a future versus those who come out and kind of, I don't want to say play the game, but continue to struggle. You know what I'm saying? Man, that's something that I've really been considering a lot lately. And even with the students that I deal with on a day-to-day basis, why some of them seem to just get it and grab a hold of Jesus while others, you know, don't. And honestly, I don't think it's complicated. I think the simple part is, it goes back to Jesus being the answer. He's the answer for all of our difficulties. Some people, you know, they're willing to buy into the idea of Jesus, but not believe, as the Scripture says, as it's written in John, you know, and just really sell completely out.

The Role of Love in Recovery

You know, I think the reality of it is, and this isn't just among folks like us. I think it's among Christianity as a whole. They want Jesus and the world, you know? And for people like you and me and the ones that we deal with, it's impossible to stay alive very long like that or to stay out of jail or to stay out of the things that we get into because it just doesn't work. Yeah, I heard a preacher say a long time ago, Jeff, like the difference is, the difference is 18 inches right between the head and the heart. And it's that challenge of like a lot of people are infatuated with the idea of Jesus as Savior, but like the real transformation happens when He becomes Lord, you know? That's right.

Encouraging Spiritual Growth

And that's right. And so, so what do you, if you know you have a student that's kind of grappling with that, right? And you kind of see that they're in that position where they're infatuated with the world a little bit still and hadn't really quite made that leap over to the other side from Savior to Lordship. You know, how are you encouraging a guy like that? Honestly, man, I just love on him. I keep sharing the gospel. Just just keep pointing them to Jesus. And I spend a lot of time on my face for our students because it's not something we can do. Justin, you know as well as I do, you can look back on your career dealing with those people. How many of them would you have loved to just open their head up and just dump in what you know?

The Spiritual Nature of Transformation

And it don't matter how hard you shake them, how much you yell at them. Man, it's a spiritual thing that they just have to have the revelation. I'm always reminded of when Jesus said, "Who do you say I am?" And Peter said it, and Christ told him. He said, "You know, flesh and blood didn't reveal that to you." You know, it's a, man, the things of God are just so deep yet they're so simple. It's hard to understand. And I just, I really believe in love. My ministry, you've known us. You know, I just really believe that love is the key and we just keep loving on them through their failures.

Overcomplicating the Recovery Process

And haven't we done that in the recovery space though, like tried to overcomplicate things, especially in a lot of the Christian recovery circles? I mean, it's like the antidote is Jesus. You know, I told the story at my church the other day, Jeff, I still reference TC and talk about Teen Challenge all the time. And I'll never stop. You know, it was such a pivotal part of my life. And I shared David Wilkerson's interaction with Nicky Cruz, you know, where he told David he was going to cut him. And David responded and said, "You could cut me in a thousand pieces. And all of them would say, I love you."

The Importance of Ministry After Recovery

And that's like the beauty of like what we know to be true recovery, right? It's a love relationship with Christ. And when that takes hold, that's where the lasting freedom is found. You know, everything else is just, it's window dressing. You know, it's not the real thing outside of that love. So for guys, you know, I share with you a little bit before I hit the record button offline about really the target of this podcast and the people that I'm, you know, I feel like the Lord's calling me to reach in this season, you know, I'm local church pastoring, you know, I'm raising a family and all of that.

The Call to Action for New Converts

But inside of me, there's still this burning heart because I know, you know, Jeff, I buried myself and I not buried myself, but I consume my life and ministry to other people after getting out of TC. And I know for me personally that had I not found my place in ministry and found that clear purpose, I would have went back to what I was living before. And man, it breaks my heart at times to see people that go through TC-type programs or even just having an encounter with Jesus in a church service and never do a discipleship ministry. They get that revelation of freedom for a moment. But like you said earlier, the world seems to pull them back in, you know.

Encouragement for New Graduates

And so, I believe they can have that encounter, they can make that decision in a program to make Jesus Lord. But then begin to slip. And so, man, I just I would love to hear you speak to that and maybe give your opinions on how you would encourage somebody coming right out of the program, you know, to be able to keep Jesus at the center and find that sense of purpose. I mean, it doesn't have to be going behind a pulpit like you and I, you know. Right. Honestly, man, I say it all the time to our graduates. And one of the wonderful things that I love about Project Hope and Saving Grace is that most of the people that graduate our program, I mean, they're not just most, but like 99.5% stay on to be interns and stay on to be staff, you know. And we don't graduate as many as I would like. A lot of people start, but few finish, but usually the ones that get to that finish line, man, have a heart to serve the Lord and to give back.

Finding Purpose Through Service

And I guess to speak to what you're saying, I can't, I just feel like everything in our lives have a purpose, even if it's, even if it's things that happen in our lives behind our own bad decisions where we go through like you and I did a lifetime of pain and misery from drug addiction, I believe that even that God can use. God doesn't waste anything. And personally, I believe anyone that has come to Christ the way that we have come have a purpose to bring others that way. And a lot of people don't see it that way. They don't feel like, you know, and I think what you said a little earlier about the pulpit, I think a lot of people have this misconception that ministry is simply behind a teaching pulpit or a preaching pulpit or a worship leader on the keyboard or on the platform, what in reality of it is, man, we raise up ministers all the time that minister in the wood shop or they minister in the marketing office or they do other things that they lead other men and women in that direction.

Embracing the Love of Christ

And I don't know, I think maybe it's a pride thing that a man like for me, for instance, a welder, I had a, dude, I had a welding truck parked at home when I went into the program and my plan was to get out and get back to work, you know? But of course, man, once God got a hold of me, and like you said, it's that love. It's not the rules, it's not all the disciplines that we learn, it's the love. Once the love got a hold of me, I couldn't do anything else. Paul says the love of Christ is what constrains me. My love for my wife is what makes me choose to do things that would not hurt her, upset her.

The Impact of Discipleship

And so, man, I don't know, I feel like I'm talking in circles, but not to say that a man can't go back to his family or a woman can go back to his family, he was a nurse or if he was a businessman or something and have a productive life, but I believe that Christ has to be at the center of everything that we do. I just believe that. I believe that it can be about how big my paycheck is or how many hours I work or any of those things, really, Christ has to be number one. Those who tend to get on fire for the Lord and are engaged in the work of making disciples and reproducing themselves in the Lord, as the Scriptures called us to do the Great Commission, there's a staying power in that.

The Church's Role in Sending

Now, whereas the church has made the mistake is that we have the people on the stage, we expect them to do all the ministry. That's a huge part of this process, in my opinion, like getting people on fire for the Lord and it's like, okay, now I'm going out and I'm reproducing, you know, because there's so much purpose and direction in them. I was just going to comment on what you were saying about church in general. I have really been blessed to the church that we were at in Powder League for the last three years of our in his traveling ministry. It's called the Gospel Lighthouse, and their mission statement is to reach, love, disciple, and send. And so when we left to come here, it wasn't a sad thing, it was a celebration because that, and I believe that goes right along with what Paul was saying when he was giving those offices and what the purpose of the church was.

The Mission of Community Transformation Church

And now we're at a church that it's called Community Transformation Church. And our church here, our mission statement is reach, empower, disciple, and send. And so it's all about sending. The end result should always be to send, not to see how many we can gather, you know. And if that is the heart of the body of Christ, man, we just can't lose, you know, I mean, because that was the heart of Christ. It was go. Heck, two-thirds of God has go!

Bridging the Gap Between Spheres

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and I think, but I think that's what separates the Christian discipleship ministries from typical rehab, right? Because getting off the drugs are the loaves in the fish, if you will, right? It's what brings them there to hear the message, you know, to hear the message of the cross and help them become disciples in Christ, you know? And there's no question about it. A place like Teen Challenge, a place like Project Hope, our goal is to evangelize you. We want to win you to Jesus, you know? Getting off of drugs is great. It's a byproduct of the evangelism and the discipleship that's going to take place when you come to a ministry like that.

The Value of Community in Recovery

Let's talk about community and how valuable that was. You and I had a conversation with a few brothers last night on a live podcast, and we were talking about the value of Christian community and on how strong that was. I'm sure you remember some of your brothers in the program when you were in TC and those relationships that you formed on how do we continue to maintain that, you know, after a recovery program, if you will? Where do we go to find that? If somebody, let's say, doesn't stay, I want to become an intern, you know, how do they seek that out and find that type of community?

Finding Strong Church Connections

I just think it's important to connect to a good strong church that has more than just a Sunday meeting, and sadly enough, that has become difficult after 2020 because many of the churches, I was just talking to a brother in Christ that lives in South Carolina earlier today about that and how some of the churches that were having, you know, several services a week, when COVID hit and they shut down, when they came back, they stopped having the Sunday night service, they stopped having the Tuesday night prayer meetings, they stopped doing a lot of things and they never got back to those things.

The Pursuit of Community

But I will say, I believe that there are places out there, you, man, listen, when we were doing drugs, bro, we would go to the ends of the earth to find that. I think if we would be just as diligent in looking for the community, the community is there. There's other people that are just like us looking for that, you know? This church, CT, Community Transformation Church that I'm a part of now, man, we've got life groups, we've got kingdom leadership classes on Mondays, and there's always something going on that you can get around, you know, the family of God and do things if you want to. Now, I say that and I live in Houston, you live in the mountains somewhere out behind everything, so it may not always be that easy, but I think honestly, man, I'll say this: how bad do you want it? If you want something bad enough, I think...

Jeff's Daily Walk with God

You can... How has community impacted you, Jeff? Like you talked about your church and all the stuff that you have going on at your home church and the connectivity, right? You're connected to the men at the program you lead. I mean, how does that impact your day-to-day walk having those people that surround you? It's, I think it's huge. I think it's huge. I mean, the reality of it is, the way that I start my day, I think sets the tone for my day, you know? I get up early with my coffee and my Bible, and I sit at least for an hour with the Lord. I mean, as I get up earlier and sit longer, I couldn't... I don't know what my life would be like without that.

The Importance of Accountability

I mean, I look into the face of God before I even look at my wife. I mean, I wake up before her. But then, you know, what to answer your question, I think it's... I think it helps me drastically to be around good people throughout my day, you know? I don't... Honestly, man, I never tried anything else. I found something that worked, and that's just what I did. I don't risk... I mean, today I could go just... I think I could go to any neighborhood or any place, you know, and be fine, but I think it's important to pick and choose wisely, and it's biblical who we surround ourselves with.

Navigating Difficult Seasons

Yeah, it's the whole bad company corrupts good character thing, and the opposite is also true. You know, I mean, good friends and good community help build us up and help pull us out of our mess. And yeah, having those people, man, it's so vital. And I think you make a good point, man, about if you want it bad enough, you know? Like, and weirdly, we all know the benefit of having friendships no matter how introverted we may be, right? Like, that's just a mask at times or an excuse sometimes. But like, the value of having people, you know, the Bible talks about mourning with those who mourn, you know? And not just the bad times, but also people that can celebrate you and celebrate you when you win, you know? I mean, even those small wins that most of the world would overlook, having good friends close to you helps push some of that on.

Testimonials of Hope

Have there been any times where your community of people around you have helped you get through a difficult season? Absolutely, absolutely, all the time. Well, sure, you know, we've got... I think everyone has like a target type thing of circles. And, you know, we've got our inner circles and our outer circles and then, you know, people that we just deal with very generally. But I think it's important to have a core group of people that you can tell anything to. You should never have secrets. You should never have... you should never go through anything by yourself. You know, absolutely the answer to your question is yes, I've always... I never go through things by myself anymore. You know, I seek the Lord, my wife, and then I have a few really, really close friends who know everything about me all the time.

The Dangers of Isolation

Yeah, one of the 12 steppers said we're only as sick as our secrets, you know? And that, on that live, the enemy tries to isolate us and keep us trapped, you know, and keep us alone. We're saying ultimately grows in the dark. Yes, Jeff, what are you excited about what the Lord's doing right now in your community and where you're at? Oh, man, right now, just, you know, we've been with Project Hope for about seven months now, almost eight months, and it's... I never... Pastor Justin, I never would have imagined that the Lord would be able to use me as the director of a program.

The Growth of Project Hope

I mean, I love to preach, I love to travel, I love to minister around the altars and pray for people and deal with people on the phone, but I honestly, I feel like we're exactly where we're supposed to be. Project Hope in Saving Grace, whenever we were praying about joining up with these folks, I feel like I heard the Lord, you know? And I know that's... people think that's crazy that you hear the Lord, but I do believe He speaks to our hearts, and I believe He spoke to my heart that we were getting in on the bottom floor of something great.

A Testament to Faithfulness

And already since we've been here, we've seen incredible growth. The Texas women are moving out of a house that they've rented since Saving Grace started into their own property actually this weekend, you know? The Lord just continues to bless this ministry. We were able to, because of our fundraising efforts and good stewardship, we were able to purchase 50 vehicles, ministry-wide, not purchase, but lease them, ministry-wide, so that our fundraising crews don't have to rent cars and don't have to be in junkers, you know, because that is our really...

Building a Healthy Recovery Environment

50, yes sir, yes sir, but remember, yes sir, but remember we have eight campuses too, and fundraising, storefront fundraising, is not our sole form of revenue, but it's a big part of it, and our program is free to the guys, and 100% of what we raise goes into our properties, into our vehicles, into our students. We don't want to just have a program where they just come, and they're in the shop, and they're in the class, man, we take them to ball games, we take them to... we teach them how to live, teach them that we can have fun sober, man, doing the same things that we used to feel like we had to be jacked up to do, you know? And we just really, we want to love on our folks, and anyways, I'm probably way off the question, but we love what we're doing.

Launching 'Freedom Nights'

We started three months ago, I started a service on Tuesday night, a midweek service, it's a chapel, but it's an open chapel, because I want to bridge the gap. We're in a really, we're in the hood, bro, we're in a really poor community where our Project Hope is located, and I want to bridge the gap between the church and the unchurched, and so we have an open chapel on Tuesday nights, we call it Freedom Nights, where our men come, the women come sometimes, and we're starting to get more and more people from the community that are coming, that can connect with the message that we share, that we bring.

Celebrating Community Worship

And we do time of worship and testimonies and refreshments and fellowship, and we do that once a week, so we've got that going on. We've always got something cool going on. I think that speaks back though, you mean Sharon, we want to show them how to have a good time, right? And I think so many of us forgot how to have fun outside of drugs, you know? And relearning that part of community is like having people that you can have fun with and not having to be intoxicated to do it.

The Journey of Recovery

That's another skill to learn, you know, for people that are going to, you know, the guy was talking last night, he was talking about his addiction story, and he's like, "I used to drink when I was happy, I drink when I was sad, I drink when I had a good day, I drink when I had a bad day," you know? And that became the center of his entire world, you know? And it's like, there are other ways to celebrate and have fun other than turning, for me, it was a needle, you know, maybe a bottle or whatever, and learning that part of it, man, I really love that.

The Cost of Recovery

And I don't want to gloss over the fact that you said the program's free. So to clarify that, if somebody happens to come across this, Jeff, and they want to reach out to Project Hope, they've got no money, they got no insurance, that's the place for them to go, they can reach out to you for help. It's 877-491-3816, and another thing that I really, really admire about this program is if you are on the admissions team, we have several men that are on the admissions team and several women that are on the admissions team, it's not an option to not answer your phone. But the ones that choose to do that know that, and I love their hearts, they have a heart to help anybody. It doesn't matter if it's the middle of the night, it doesn't matter if it's Sunday afternoon, I've seen them get up and walk out of a church service to take a phone call. The heart of this ministry is incredible, and also, man, if somebody's far away from us, and they're desperate and we pray about it, and we feel like they are serious, man, we'll put them on a bus, because we know that people, by the time they get to that broken place, we know that they're broke, you know, and it's our heart.

Individualized Support in Recovery

And one of the things that I've noticed, it's really a little different here, is although we have policies in place concerning relatives like wives and things like that, man, we deal with everyone on an individual basis. I mean, we've got some guys here that we come in, and we find out about their husband and wife dynamic, may not be the best. Maybe they don't get to talk after two weeks, like most people get a phone call after two weeks. It might be a month and then it's monitored, and then it might be a few months before they get a visit. We just, man, whoever God sends to us, that's our priority, not the relationship, not the family dynamic, not any of that, because until we get this individual right, they're not going to be good for anybody anyways, and the last thing we want to do is send somebody, you know, back half baked, to half cooked, whatever you want.

The Transformation Process

Hopefully not baked. We're not doing anything right? I was freaking out of cake, but fat boys always think. Sorry, my brain. Yeah, man, so 12 months though, right? The program's still a year. 12 months, and then we offer a six-month internship for anybody that, you know, wants to serve in ministry or just wants a little extra footing, you know? We really encourage it, because I really think that that's where the real growth happens. It's one thing to be in the men's home when somebody's always telling you everything, but quite another to be like just down the street in the staff and intern house and have to show up for work yourself and be responsible for your own money and things like that, you know? It's good, it helps them to grow.

Reflections on the Past

Yeah, that's one of the things that I think in the recovery world, like the soft skills that are just nonexistent after living the lifestyle and had it for so many years, you know? I mean, learning that and relearning that, just the practical things, the value, like you said, of showing up on time to work, committing to a task, and following through and finishing it, you know? And, you know, even some of the other stuff, I mean, learning how to manage money, right? And getting credit back together, and all the things that are just often a mess, you know, after going through the lifestyle of addiction, having an opportunity to really fix all that, you know? So it's so important.

A Thought Experiment with the DeLorean

Yeah, yeah. I have a great testimony that I can share really quickly. Michael Jacobic, who heads up our, he's a staff member now, but he graduated just a little bit over a year ago and didn't have a driver's license or anything. And he was able to take his intern pay and, you know, the bonuses he gets for fundraising and all of that. And within eight months, he was able to save enough money to fly to Florida to pay $5,000 to the courts so that he could get his driver's license back. And then a few months after that, he was able to have enough saved to buy a car. And then he just recently, two weeks ago, he moved into his own apartment. And so it can be done. It can be done in ministry.

The Power of Determination

A lot of people think that, you know, it's hard to make a living in ministry and how bad do you want it? It all goes back to the same little phrase that I use with our men a lot. How bad do you really want it, you know? There's going to ask you a question. So one of the things I do consistently on this podcast over my, that shoulder, that thing that's lit up behind me, you see it, it's a Lego DeLorean. So Back to the Future is one of my favorite movie series of all times, right? And I love the fact that they can go to any period in history, you know, or into the future and experience that period.

Advice from Future Jeff

And so one of the questions that I kind of set up guests with at the end of the show, especially containing pertaining to the topic we kind of talked about tonight, community and kind of morphed into the recovery program. But I think it's important for as many people to hear about the ministry that you have that you're a part of, you know, because free recovery just doesn't exist that often anymore, you know? Like a place where people can go get help for free is, I mean, God is doing something because I've been in the chair that you're in at a different program. And I know how hard it is to put those funds together and to see the Lord provide them for you guys like that as such an encouragement.

Wisdom for the Future

But the question I wanted to ask Jeff is if Jeff today, you said 2013, what year did you go? 2013. If Jeff today could hop in the DeLorean, go talk to Jeff back in 2013, fresh out of the TC program, and knowing everything that you know now, you could tell him one thing that would help set him up for the future. What would Jeff today tell Jeff back then? Probably exercise more. That's a great answer. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. When I met the Lord, man, I just chased after Him. And I don't think I would do anything different along those lines. But I wish I would have gotten. I'm disciplined in my Bible. I'm disciplined in all my God stuff. But man, if I could be more disciplined in my health, that's what I would tell me really because I'm 55 now. I've got a four-year-old granddaughter. And I just I want to be around. I want to live, you know?

Embracing Healthy Living

Yeah, yeah. No, that's good. I don't know your answer, but that's what came to my mind. It's a great answer because I feel you. I didn't... I was never pregnant, but yet, I still gained weight. I don't understand, you know? So no, man, I think that's good. I mean, it's the holistic nature of recovery. And like I had a conversation with a health coach on my podcast a few weeks back and we talked about the nature of food addiction. And that's one of those things that it's like a third rail to touch, you know, like it because it brings a lot of shame. And I'm not a fan of shame to motivate people. I've never been a fan of shame to motivate people. But that was one of the things we spent some time talking about. He, he's in his 50s and he's got this goal that he wants to be in the best shape of his life in the mid-80s. Like he's convinced like and he's on his way there. It's a pretty powerful conversation. But man, Jeff, I just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the times tonight. I know I am absent-minded and I was chatting with you earlier and was supposed to send the time back at eight. And you got to hit send, friends, like you've got to hit send on the messages where they don't go through. That's a sweetable right there.

Final Thoughts and Appreciation

But on, I appreciate you, man. I appreciate the work you're doing at Project Hope. And I'm going to drop all the information for them down below. So if you are a love one needs help on, man, these guys love Jesus. Jeff is the real deal. I don't just know via the internet. We've seen each other face to face. I've seen him minister. I've seen his love for people in this struggle. And so this is a safe place to reach out to if you need help. And so I really just wanted to leave and kind of encourage that. Jeff, did you have any closing words you wanted to say? No, I just wanted to tell you thank you for considering me for this interview. And just thank you for everything that you've done and just continue to do. You know, you could definitely be in the living room with your family right now. But you choose to do things like this to get the word out that there's hope. It's just one of those things that once you've experienced something, I always, when I'm preaching, I say it like this. It's like I spent many years in a prison and then somebody came and unlocked my gate and then gave me the key. It's like we can't in good conscience put that key in our pocket and go on about our lives. You know, it's our... it's almost like a responsibility, you know, to do that. And what's really cool is that when you're doing it for Christ and for no other reason, I've noticed that God will give the grace to our wives and to our families for us to be out in the shed at 8 o'clock in the night.