The Moment Curtis Knew God Wasn’t Done With Him

The Journey Through Struggles

When stresses of life would come, it was always drugs. I would pick up some type of substance. I went to the heights, the depths. I tried to outrun God or tried to think like, there's got to be a different way to do this. I don't know, or my way. I made my bed in hell multiple times. And it was just this point of realizing like, no matter where I go, you continue to love me. You continue to pursue me. You continue to tell me like, I'm qualified. He's continued to tell me like, I've chosen you. I've called you. And I think it was coming to that realization that he who started this work was going to finish it.

Introduction to the Transform by Hope Podcast

Hey, thank you so much for joining in to the Transform by Hope podcast. My name is Justin Frainer, and I'm excited to have you here today. As we all just dive into stories, right? We really just want to be about bringing the hope of Jesus to people that are struggling with addiction. And man, I got a few friends here with me today. How are you, brother? I'm always good, man, you know that. Every day's good with Jesus, bro. Yeah, amen, amen. So welcome. So where are we at today? So we're in the outpatient center that we're opening here in Cumberland, Maryland for the City Reach. We're working on here getting ready to open next month.

The Power of Community and Connection

Nice, that's awesome, man. Praise God. Congratulations. And we got somebody else with us, so you want to introduce? Yeah, this is my good friend. I've been in a couple of years now that I met Curtis Polaski. He works for City Reach here in Cumberland, which is another faith-based discipleship program. And one thing I love about them, and this pastor and the leader there for it, is that they're always willing to jump in. It's not about City Reach or Teen Challenge, but about Jesus and reaching people for the lost. And so we've made a connection back then and have been friends ever since, man. He's a worship leader and a lover of Jesus and a lover of reaching people for Jesus. And so we're just glad to have Curtis here, man. Are you going to sing for us today? No. That's not going to happen.

A Journey into Recovery Ministry

So tell us a little bit, man, about how you got involved. Because I know for myself, and I can't imagine I've heard Rob share before, like 20 years ago recovery ministry wasn't on the life plan. I know for me, I can't speak for you, but how did you get involved in recovery ministry, City Reach, what you're doing these days? And really, I think we'd have to start at the beginning, man. My first introduction to recovery wasn't faith-based. I grew up in a dysfunctional family, abuse, verbal, and physical abuse. I got into drugs at 14. I went to rehab my senior year in high school for the first time. I wasn't graduating school when I was failing out. And while I was in there, I met a lady who was trying to connect with the program I was in. She said, oh, you have a Bible. I didn't grow up churched. I didn't know anything about God. To me, Jesus was a relic that hung on a cross, and I had no personal relationship with God.

Finding Faith Through Addiction

My dad had some history of being Catholic, but he would just pray to himself. It was a very kept-to-himself type of faith. And I'm in this rehab, and I run into this lady. She said, oh, you have a Bible. I'll pray for you. The kid she was with didn't want to be there. So she left, and I was about it. I got out, I got back in, I graduated the program. I got out and got back involved in drugs. Back then, it was just drinking and marijuana, you know? And I came home from that trip and saw this lady get into a restaurant. And I'm giving you my introduction into faith, and then I'll kind of speed it up for the sake of time. I ran into this lady again. She said, I've been praying for you. God has a plan for your life. And I'm like, yeah, you're weird. I don't know who you are.

The Encounter that Changed Everything

I said ancient when you're 19. And now that we're in our 30s, it's like, oh, I'm not that old. I'm 46 now, and I said, well, I'll take your number. I had no intentions on calling her, which I didn't. And then two weeks later, I started aftercare plan. And this is all, you know, NAA drug counseling. I go into St. Francis Hospital and someone's running up a side street screaming my name, and it's this lady again. And she says, Curtis, you never called me. I said, yeah, I know. And I was pretty scared at that. She said, I've been praying for you. This is God. I'm telling you, I've been praying that I'd run into you again. He has a plan for your life. He can change your life.

A Transformative Experience at Church

I said, all right, I'll take your number. And I did call her. Probably the next two or three months, she would come over my parents' house every Sunday. And I would lock my bedroom door. And they're like, you're crazy. Leave me alone. I’d be cursing this woman up one side down the other. I have a lot to hear. Grateful Dead. I was just a hippie. I missed Woodstock, but I still wanted to be a hippie. Can you see the effort? Oh, yeah, I got pictures of the privilege. I got to see it. And finally, August 17, 1997, I go to church with Lisa Habira at a Summaries of God church in Pittsburgh. And I just had an encounter with the presence of God. And I didn't know what I was experiencing. I knew something was overwhelming me.

The Journey into Discipleship

And this pastor was saying the same thing this woman was saying to me, God has a plan for you. God can change your life. And he said, if you feel God tugging on your heart, he wants you to respond to me. And it literally felt like something was pulling my heart. And I said, I'm going to lead you in a prayer. There's no power in this prayer, but the power is in you confessing and believing. And as I was saying this prayer at 19, it felt like somebody was filling me up with warm water, as the only way I could ever explain it, from my feet. And then when it hit the tip of my head, I just uncontrollably broke. I'm just weeping. I'm talking, it's not coming out of my nose. I've just broken, undone.

A Path of Healing Through Service

And I began to get discipled in the youth group. I began to go to church there regularly. I did two years of a program called Master's Commission. I went off to school to the Forerunner School of Ministry in Kansas City, which is IHOP International House of Prayer with Mike Bickle. I spent about a year and a half there. After that, I did online college through Global University to get credentialed. I got married while I was in Kansas City, had our first, first and only child, Adelaire. She's 18 today. And my story is a struggle, though. I got saved. God did radical things in my life. But I had three major times in my life I fell back into addiction, even as a believer in fallen Christ. I faced many trials and tests.

Facing Challenges Head-On

In 2016 is really where I got introduced to faith-based. I was in and out of probably 10 or 12 different rehabs, outpatient and inpatient, even as a believer, going to church, surrendering and getting plugged in again, and then kind of eventually falling off. I had strongholds. I know I had in my life. One of them was the fear of man. Another one was identity, just false identity. Just condemning, unworthy, had no self-worth. In 2016, 2015, I was eventually my drug addiction turned into pills, opiates, and then heroin. And as they're struggling with addiction like, hey, you're not really going to church much anymore. I'm just kind of living life, paying bills, trying to hold things together.

The Decision for Change

And I feel a lot, I feel a lot like Peter in some ways. There were three times I just kind of turned my back. I didn't really rebel against God and stop believing. I had turned my back on falling after him and pursuing him. In 2016 is when I went back into, I actually went into Pittsburgh City Reach Home, which Rob briefly said, I'm part of City Reach Church here in Cumberland, Maryland. And we have Hope Homes, one for men and one for women. Back then, City Reach was a bigger network with a hundred plus different churches, 20-some different Hope Homes all over the country. And I went into the Pittsburgh City Reach Home in 2016. My ex-wife had left me. She was done with the addiction and the heroin. She took her daughter and left. And that's a testimony to share coming up here about God restoring my relationship with my daughter.

The Ultimate Surrender

And in 2016, I went into the men's Hope Home in Pittsburgh with City Reach. And finally, I was ready to just lay it all down once again and really take a longer-term step towards recovery, toward just saying, God, I don't want it. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, you know? I know you love me. The issue has never been with God. It's been with me. I still have things I got to figure out. And I was in there for seven months, and God was radically working and moving in my life, speaking to me. I mean, I have journals. There were moments he was speaking to me every day, reminding me of his promises, reminding me of the call on my life, reminding me of who Christ was and who I am in him, you know?

A Life Transformed: Meeting and Ministry

And after seven months of being there, the founder of City Reach and David Smith, who is from Cumberland, Maryland here in Fred Timbrooke, they came to Wexford, PA, and had a meeting with me. I didn't know I was having this meeting. The director of the program back then said, hey, you know, some people want to meet with you. And God had already been speaking to me. I will always ran from the call of God in my life, the responsibility, because there's a weight to it. There's a burden you have to carry, and I wasn't, I didn't really rely, and give myself, and make myself available to the Holy Spirit back then.

The Call and Open Question

So I could ask you a question in real quick. So you said, you always ran from the call of God, but yet I'm here in early on in your story, Four-runner School of Ministry, right? The School of Ministry out there, and Master's Commission, which are all like ministry training schools, right? So help me understand that a little bit more, right? Because there's that kind of that dichotomy there between the two, right? There's the kind of struggling with this call, but also kind of being trained and equipped for it at the same time. So what was going on there?

The Tension Between Call and Reality

It was really, there's moments for me answering the call and laying my life down. And then one life would come marriage, pregnancy. We lost our first pregnancy, my ex-wife. I don't know, when stresses of life would come, I would succumb to those stresses. And I would start to compromise. And I knew I can't answer this calling when I'm still living in compromise like this. It was always drugs. I would pick up some type of substance. I’d start, God, for a drink here and there, start smoking marijuana again. And that would just jar and put a hindrance in me pursuing. And then I'd be kind of on a detour.

The Decision to Surrender Again

So what was different, right? This is the second time around, like as you're getting ready, I can say, I can imagine where the story's going, right? From here, with like meeting up there and just kind of putting it together. But like, what was different at that point? You know what I'm saying? And you like that you were, I guess, ready to surrender. You know what I'm saying at that point? And like, God, I'm taking this leap. I'll be honest with you. It's, you know, I think David talks about this in the Psalms. I don't know. I tried to outrun God or try to think like there's got to be a different way to do this. I don't know, or my way. I made my bed in hell multiple times. And it was just this point of realizing like, no matter where I go, you continue to love me.

The Unconditional Nature of God's Love

You continue to pursue me. You continue to tell me like, I'm qualified. You know, he's continued to tell me like, I've chosen you. I've called you. And I think it was coming to that realization that he who started this work was going to finish it. And I, yeah, there's a burden there, but it wasn't mine to carry myself. Right. And I think I really began to realize like, this is, you know, this is bigger than me. And I can trust God to help me walk this out. And it took a lot of, I don't know, the stress and anxiety off of me trying to work this out and letting him work it out for me.

The Weight of Expectations

I heard you say something earlier, so I'm paying back a second. But you said one of the issues that you dealt with was pleasing man. So that probably played right into the fear and anxiety of if I take this one and then I got to, I got to make sure I do it right to please all these men to be able to do what God's called me to do. So that probably just powered on top of each other. And there wasn't, dude, I don't know if you mentioned that we were talking prior. There wasn't faith-based recovery stuff like there is today. And when I would struggle with addiction again or whatever I felt, I felt like I had no one I could relate to.

The Isolation of Struggle

Like their biggest struggle was they forgot to read the Bible that week, you know, or something like that. And I did, I felt isolated. It was hard for me to trust. I kept a lot of people at arms in ministry. Because ever since I got saved, I've been involved in the church with ministry, you know, seeing the good, the bad, and everything, you know. And everything I've been involved in has been good. It's developed me. But I think it was, I think it was that, you know, just trying to find that place where I was, I knew God accepted me and loved me, and I was okay being me in the midst of these things being worked out in me.

Finding Your Tribe

When I came to City Reach, it was like, I don't know, it's like you're finding your tribe in a sense. Amen. Yeah, there's this misconception, I think, a lot of times that like our journey to wholeness and purpose and the thing God calls us to, I mean, it's rarely ever a straight path, right? I mean, there's that crooked and he makes the crooked place straight, I guess, you know? But like, man, there's just this journey, these ups and downs, highs and lows that we all walk through. And then a lot of times, I think, you know, especially in some of the circles that I run in, it's like, there's this Holy Ghost moment at the altar, you know, it's not dripping all that, which is wonderful, like God shows up like that, but like, that isn't all of the work, right? It's just the beginning of the work.

Beyond the Altar Call: The Ongoing Journey

And it's like, the altar call worked for you, yes. But like, there are still things, like the spirit of the Lord is there, but like, so are we. Like, I think I heard you say that. Like, it wasn't God. There wasn't an issue with God. He's always been constant. The issue was starting to kind of deal with me on the inside. And I would love to go into a little bit more of that inner work that you began to do in that process, because especially for those in recovery, they have these misstep setbacks, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, oh, this all sucks. It just didn't work anyways, you know?

Embracing Inner Work for Transformation

And it's like, but this refining process is a part of becoming sanctified. It's becoming who we're called to be in Christ. And what did that inner work look like in you? It's funny to mention that, because on the way over here, I'm thinking like, Lord, I need a verse or something like that to sum up. And the verse that there's many life verses that I have, but James 1 chapter, James chapter 1 verses 2 to 4, I'm sorry. Is consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds, for the testing of your faith develops perseverance, and perseverance must finish its work so that you may be whole and complete, lacking nothing.

Understanding Trials as Growth

And I've learned that a lot of these verses are for the, what's yet to come, even for Jesus returning an eternity, but they're also for the here and now. And for anyone that would listen to this man, it's a battle. It's a fight to keep getting up. And I always, I think the Holy Spirit that's in me for constantly saying, like, Curtis, get up. Keep fighting. Keep pressing on. You haven't arrived yet. There's more for you.

Embracing the Journey

This embrace learned, I remember God gave me that verse early on as a Christian, and I was like, this isn't encouraging at all. Amen. Do what? And along with the one that Jesus says to Simon, Simon, Simon, Satan is asked to sift you like wheat. Come on. But I'm afraid. Yeah, and I'm like, again, none of that sounds encouraging. But, you know, I've learned to embrace the trials and the setbacks and the challenges because they've developed me. Like you said, refined me and strengthened me in Christ. And it's just really solidified who he is as our Savior, who he is as our faithful shepherd, you know, who will never leave us nor forsake us.

The Assurance of God's Faithfulness

You know, he, like I shared in the beginning, he started this, he's going to finish it. And he's in me. And there's nothing I can do. I was looking up another verse here, Romans 8.38 to 39. There's nothing. I have become convinced like Paul has nothing can separate me from his love. And it's just getting to, it's, I've gotten to a place really in the last five years where I feel like I've really matured in my faith and really started to own and take ownership of my calling, my identity in Christ, the offices that he, the office he's given me, the gifts he's given me. And the realization is that nothing can separate me from that. I can't, I'm not, I'm not that powerful to mess up, you know, something the creator of the universe has started. It's really good.

The Importance of Authentic Community

But everything, everything is built, yeah, every trial and test has built me up to be, where I said today is the whole list and fullest and most complete of ever been in my life. And I'm continuing to break ground and move into greater things, not just my personal life, but discipling other men in our homes, being a prophetic voice to our church. I believe even to this community and just, you know, God just building upon that sets. Yeah, it's so good. A lot of people out there, and I think your testimony is talking about, I'm glad you went through that part of it because you've been in church and then still fell out and still fell out, even after the encounters.

The Reality of the Discipleship Process

And Justin said it, like the encounter can do it, but sustaining the relationship to sustain the beginning. It's like meeting a girl when you first fall in love, that's great, but it has to grow from there into something deeper. And, you know, one of the things I love about him is he's a lover of the secret place. Like I, like, you know, in what you're describing those trials and temptations, like every time that we go through that, you know, to be made in the image of Christ, to be formed and shaped and molded into him. Obviously, all of us have stuff we got to get out because we don't look like him. None of us have repulsed that I haven't arrived yet. We haven't either, but his process to get there to fight the good fight of faith, to believe even in the trial that he's good, to believe in even in, you know, situations of bad reports from doctors or family, not being there in relationships, not working.

Navigating the Ups and Downs

These are the things that always run us back to drugs and alcohol. That's the hard part. It's like, hold on. The way that I look at this, though, our perspective, as Paul was talking to consider or James, pure joy, the way we look at a trial, being able to say, hey, you know what, I know, and this is something I've had to learn over the past 14 years the hard way, most of the times. But to know that whatever I'm facing right now, the enemy's going to overplay his hand, and it's going to draw me with the right perspective closer to Jesus, make me more like him, help me love people the way he loves.

Understanding the Refining Process

If I just see it the way that James said it in that verse, I love that verse because it's like, if I consider it joy when I go through this, and then because I go through it, having its work, working its fullness, like patience and perseverance has to, you have to go through that, endure that, then it can get you to maturity. Like, it's the only way to get to maturity. We don't want to hear that. I want to hear the cost of that and what it goes through. But the reason why we can do that is he's tapped into it too.

The Hidden Treasure of the Secret Place

It's this secret place, man. And I think that a lot of people in church never even understand that there is such a thing, you know what I mean? And so I don't know if you want to share a little bit on your thought on the secret place, man. Because I know you're a worshipper, and I know where it comes from, and I know I go through this. That's my heart of hearts. Obviously, Jesus is the ultimate example. He was, he came in the flesh as a man. But David, you know, David was a man like I'm a man. And he's probably, he's probably one I relate to the most in scripture. And in Psalm 27, he talks about, you know, this one thing I ask, this one thing I desire to dwell in your house, to hear your voice, to inquire in your temple, to just, to behold the one, you know?

Embracing the Presence of God

Who am I? That you're mindful of me. Who am I that you love me like this? Who am I that you presume? Who am I that you make a place for you and me to dwell together in communion? And that's probably the thing that's been solidified in my life is he's made that place for us with him. And nothing can separate us from that. That's okay. There's no sin, there's no demon, there's no backsliding, there's no mistake I can make, there's no problem I have, there's no stronghold that's hard enough to break, there's no chain, there's nothing. And he's just like, he's worn down any excuse I could possibly have or any idea to think that there's anything that's gonna stop or hinder that, you know?

Living Out the Call of Discipleship

And one of my prayers has always been, Lord, I really wanna live a life, I wanna live a life that exemplifies and lives out of life of what you've died and rose again for. And it is in that secret place where we encounter that kind of love, we tap into his Holy Spirit like that. And the realization, like you were touching on that he works all things together. Like he's an unstoppable force, you know what I mean? And if he's called us to do something, it's gonna happen. I don't know how you can go kicking or screaming or you can just allow it to him. Most of us men usually do.

Recognizing the Importance of Unity

Yeah, but there's that place, you know? It'd be a shame. One of the guys in the home says this now, Jesus tore the veil to give us pure, unadulterated communion with the creator of the universe. And it's a shame when we don't access that. And we don't realize that God wants to meet with us and encounter us on a regular basis. Not just at an altar when I got saved or moments throughout my life. And then that's what keeps us filled and keeps us focused, I believe.

A Call to Authenticity and Connection

That's something I've really owned in the last five years. Like God, I want to ask God again, I said, I want to fall in love with you like I did when I first met you. I want to go back to my first love. Just where it was just, I was just radically in love with you. I didn't worry about studying scripture. I didn't worry about these religious traditions and these steps to take or who to please or positions or any of that. I just want to be in love with you again. And he brought me back to that place. And it's just grown, you know.

The Challenge of the Church's Role

If you want to call it the secret place. That's it. Everyone's called long time secret place. Abiding, you know, if anyone knows me well enough to like get credit so use the word abide. Yeah, come on. Yeah, I was, as you were talking, I was thinking about Bonhoeffer's book, The Cost of Discipleship. If you guys have ever read it, like it will, yeah, it will just make you rethink your entire life within the first three or four pages. Bonhoeffer was like in Nazi Germany where at this book he was a missionary over there and like you guys did this whole book is powerful, but as soon as you were talking about that, that whole idea sought again and again and again, right?

The Cost of Following Christ

Like every time there's a stumble, every time there's a slip up, like I'm not trying to earn my position with him, but like it's easy. It's easy. The Lord asked me to give up a car. Like I can give it off because it's stuff. You know what I'm saying? It's much harder to give away pieces of me. Like I'd gladly give my stuff away. But like I want to hold on to my sin and my mass, my shame, all that stuff because I feel like it's a part of me. You know what I'm saying? And that's that part of like dying to self, like without the Holy Spirit's help of like surrendering that stuff, you know, to the cross over and over and over again.

Transformation Through Vulnerability

But yet because it's so ingrained a lot of times in who we are, it keeps popping back up, and it's like, no, I have to pursue this good news, right? That he came to die to cover those sins again and again and again and again. And there's no price too great to pay. You know, and that's, you know, uncovering that with the secret place. Like right, it's paying that price. It's being willing to go right back to the master's feet and not because he, like not because we have to earn it because it's a lover like I know who I am when I'm in his presence. And there's just so much joy, you know, to be found in those moments.

Ending the Cycle of Shame

So good. Sorry, so fit it the story. So finish the story. You're in Pittsburgh, right? And yeah, Fred and I'm sorry. Yeah, I was seven months. I'm in the City Reach men's home in Pittsburgh. And God had been speaking to me, you know, like, there's one of the moments again, like, you know, Curtis, I'm about to shift and change everything in your life again, you know? And he's giving me that faith, like, all right, Lord, you know, let's do this.

A Divine Appointment

Let's step out and I come and have, they came to Pittsburgh, Fred and David Smith, and had a meeting with me. Brian said, just share your testimony and share what God's been doing in the last seven months of your life in the men's home. And I just began to share, and the presence of God just filled the room. I'm crying, they're crying. Like it was just, it was just a moment, you know? And then the next day I met devotions because in the home we do devotions in Bible study every morning. John Stucker was the director of the men's home back then.

Transitioning Into Leadership

He calls me on and says, hey, pack your bags. You're going to, you're going to Cumberland. You're going to be their next home director. And that was going into 2017 to 2019. I directed the City Reach men's home, Hope Home back then. And I've always been involved in worship and singing, playing guitar, and God's developed that gift in me as well. So I directed the home for two years. And you talk about discipleship, being in a faith base, because I live in the home with the men. It's raw discipleship. I mean, it's a real deal. You're dealing with real stuff, real emotions, real psychological stuff, real strongholds that these guys battle and face.

The Beauty of Authentic Discipleship

And to be able to have God have walked me through all these things in my own life, there is no better therapy really. There is no better solution than having somebody who's been through that, been through that on that battlefield and have come out the other side, victorious. There's so much brilliance in Jesus' words. Like follow me and I will make you fishers of men. Like you just think about that. And just even what you just said, right? Like the work that happens in us when we decide to go fishing, right? When we, you know, you're out there, you're baiting the hook or whatever, you know, the line's getting all tangled up in the process and I'm a terrible fisherman.

The Growth Found in Community

Like I grew up in a country family, we always did the camping trips and all that. And I was just the guy who just couldn't get the fishing skills down. And you know, I wouldn't take care of my pole, put it away correctly. So then I'd go to pull it out. The line would be all tangled. You know what I'm saying? But it's just that process of like the brilliance of Jesus, like calling us into the work of the kingdom as well. Because we discover a lot about who we are when we're trying to help call other people higher. And if we're, and I think there's some self-reflection there, right? Because most of us aren't just, most, most people in ministry, there are few that we see on the news and the TV and all of that that are just outright in it for the wrong reasons.

The Dual Role of Being a Disciple and a Leader

But most of the ministers of the gospel in the country, like are also trying to be refined as they're helping to refine other people. Like that's the narrative. The narrative isn't the celebrity mega church pastor who had pure, impure motives all the way. The narrative is guys like yourself, guys like yourself who are like pursuing the call of Jesus, helping people be discipled, but also realizing that I'm still being transformed. Because while I'm fishing and God's refining me, yeah. I share that with quite often with the men in the home, that even though I'm a director, you know, and God has given me a position that I am still, there is no high tower, you know, where we finally get to this place where we're up here and everyone's trying to get there.

The Reality of Vulnerability

Jesus came down into the square. He went into the red light district. He was a part of, you know, man. Yeah. And I always share that with the men like, listen, I'm right where you're at, you know. I might be a little further down the road, so to speak, say, come on, you can get here, you know, and I'll come back and try to help guide you along, but I'm in no position higher than them, or you know, I'm still in this fight. I always say I'm still in the program, you know, I'm just not in the program anymore, but it's a lifelong experience.

Developing a Culture of Openness

There's days I wish I was, so I do listen. It's so nice not having to make decisions. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry, I just spent a little bit of time. But like, so we were talking all flying a little bit though about the dynamics. You were just talking about the rawness of discipleship and recovery ministries, right? And kind of what you're doing, living in the house and the trenches, and then like the juxtaposition of that from church ministry, right? Typical Sunday, you know what I'm saying? And kind of how sometimes when it's just like a hour a week, hour and a half or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And typical Bible studies.

Navigating the Dynamics Between Church and Recovery

And not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not as raw and messy in your face as living with somebody 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And so like when you serve in both, you all have ministries that you have at church, right? And then you also have a discipleship home. And I know you told me offline that like y'all have always been going after the broken and whatnot. But I guess as a follower and a leader, how do you kind of reconcile, you know, some of those differences and on, you know, what we see is messy discipleship? And I'm gonna get to the question just a second, I'm sorry.

Understanding the Responsibility of the Church

But I always told somebody, long time ago, programs like City Reach Freedom House, Teen Challenge, like they really are an incredible picture of the early church. We live together, we eat together, we work together, we make sure everybody's needs are taken care of. You know what I'm saying? And we worship together all of it. And yet typical Sunday morning church is just, we just worship together and maybe have a potluck together every once in a while, right? And so I guess that discipleship process, man, like he knows, like let me ask you, I'm not gonna ask you to solve all the church's problems, right? But like, how do you see that differing? Like, you know what I'm saying? And how does the church kind of get to that spot where discipleship is maybe a little more raw, messy and authentic, like we know it to be in recovery ministries?

Zooming in on the Call to Authentic Community

Yeah, it's a, I mean, there is a line there, it's in, I don't know, we, I guess we've crossed it, you know? Because discipleship is living life and doing life together. Through the struggles, through the pains, through the hardships and living reality. You know, like I shared my life, the reality of tests and trials, you know? There's gonna be setbacks, there's gonna be hangups, there's gonna be things, you know, even guys that complete a nine month to a year program, they don't have it all together. And I don't, the reality is, it's none of us will ever have it all together. Brennan Manning is a pastor and author, you know? And I've read a couple of his books, The Ragamuffin Gospel, but he talks about the reality of like, a man will never be where he should be, you know?

Recognizing Our Common Humanity

We're always continuing to need the grace of God and the love, but it's understanding that I believe even as Christians that don't so-called have life controlling issues or something like that, they're just as in need of discipleship and the grace of God and growing and maturity, being equipped as someone that just, you know, it's evident that they're broken in the pieces, and they need to put back together. The reality is if we all recognize the depths of our separation from God and sin and what it's really has done to us as humans, that we're all just as broken, you know?

Addressing Church Hurt

Having a body of Christ to realize that, you know? That no one is in this place that, you know, that they don't need that kind of discipleship. Yes, like the only difference between us and them, if you will, is that the evidence of my sin shows up on my arm as needle marks. And if everybody's, you know what I'm saying? If everybody else's sin, what show applies track marks? Like, could you imagine? You know, I guess the push or the eagerness for more discipleship, if it was that evident, but a lot of times it's the secret and hidden sin, right? The stuff that we, it's not an issue that we struggle, it's an issue that we refuse to acknowledge and struggle.

Living Out Our Common Struggles

And that tends to be the biggest issue, I think, you know? You seem like you're chomping at the bit to say something around, so go ahead and go ahead. Well, it just goes back to one of my favorite scriptures. First John, I think it's one or two, we’re verses one, two, six. It's like he's pure light in him. There's no darkness. And when we remain in unbroken fellowship, that's one of the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all the righteousness. So, you know, for people to realize no matter what that is, whether it's the track marks or whether it's gossip or whatever, but some of the problems I've noticed over the years that makes it hard for people is, you know, everybody the way people look at the altar and people when they come and being able to bring things to the light in the church setting.

Establishing a Safe Environment

I think as a whole, maybe it's been made difficult for people to come forth and say, hey, I'm struggling with pornography here. Hey, I'm struggling with this. You know, it might not show up and y’all might think I'm fine. You know, and so if we could work at, I don't know, I know we all do it, but somehow work at making it a safe place to be able to do that. I think we would find discipleship a little easier, but you said it. It's like being able to admit it and put it out there. And that's what it is. It's like putting it in the light. And so unfortunately, that keeps us from the secret place because we learn that we hide it instead of put it out there.

The Gift of Transparency

But when we learn to put it out there, we can go boldly to the secret place and we know what he does when we're there. Like, it's not an issue. We're white, clean, we're, you know, all of it's taken out. But, you know, how do, I guess the question would be maybe it's a question for you. Like, how can we, you passed the church too? You know, how, how can we make the atmosphere at our church, at our altars a safe place to come into the light with whatever issue you got?

Creating a Comfortable Atmosphere of Acceptance

Yeah, I try to model it. So I think there's, there's a line, right? I mean, as a leader, like, you know, and like, not all my personal business needs to be put out. You know, and there's wisdom and discernment in that. But like, also, a couple months ago, man, I was just, I was having a rough, rough couple of weeks. So we were dealing with a lot of stuff at home. I called somebody up, like, I was really going through and I just was not in the frame of mind to preach. And I'm like, man, I am, I'm in a spot right now where my emotions are going to show up in my message and rather than help heal people, I'm, I am, there's a potential my words could hurt them because I am in a raw spot right now. I called one of the guys in the church and I said, I, this is last minute, I usually don't drop this on people, but I need you to cover for me.

Encouraging Open Dialogue

And he got up, covered for me and the very next week. I got up in front of the church and said, thank you. I was having a terrible week. I was not in the frame of mind to get up here and talk to you guys. And was just honest about it. Like, you know, and I didn't try to over-spiritualize it, right? And once that vulnerability came out, the body of Christ was able to do it at its best and surround us. So many of us never experienced that body of the Christ because we're too busy hiding it. We've got the fear of man going on. Like, we all struggle with the insecurity, the identity issues. So we don't want anybody to think that there's anything wrong. And so, and nobody can help us. Like, that's the problem. Like, your arm's not broken. Why am I supposed to play on it? You know what I'm saying?

Nurturing a Culture of Authenticity

But like, man, it's just, it's beautiful. I wouldn't plan on going there, but thanks, Rob. I hate you. So Curtis, man, tell me, tell me a little bit about your journey now. You work with the minute city reach if on, somebody comes across Clip, catches this video here on YouTube and they need help? They could go to our website at cityreachcumberland.com, and information's on there about our Hope Homes. They could fill out an intake form online. They could also, concerning the men's home, they could reach me at 240-522-8232 and we could do an over-the-phone assessment intake phone call. We also have a women's home. I don't have her information present right now to, I don't have it to memory. But the main way would be to look us up online. Most of our stuff is online right now through our website.

Closing Thoughts

Yeah, we'll put everything in the, we'll put everything in that comments below. Rob, did you have any other questions? No, I don't think so. Or they could show up at church on Sunday at City Reach, right? Yeah, Sunday at 10:30. You'll sing to us, right? Yes. Come here, Curtis. Actually, I have a guy, the next two weeks, I won't be on the worship team. I have a guy graduating this coming Sunday. So I have to just be focused on that and walking him through that. The ceremony, if you want to call it that. And then, Tuesday, Sunday after that, I'm actually preaching. Oh, yeah. I need to come. Do you have time for your services too? We do Sunday mornings at home. Nice. I will put all the links down in the description for everybody watching on. I imagine when I ask you a kind of a closing question and on, this is fun when I do it at my studio because I'm a huge Back to the Future fan.

Reflecting on the Past

So I have a Lego DeLorean that sits on my shelf behind me when I'm talking. I didn't bring the DeLorean with me. Do you like Back to the Future? Yeah, I did. One of my favorite movie trailers. Money. We're going to get Back to the Future. So on. That's a good movie. Anyways, if you could happen to DeLorean and travel back to when you're fresh out of the Bible programs, you just kind of explored this call to ministry, answer the call to ministry. And I don't ask the question, would you change anything about the past? Because I don't think that's a useful question. But what would Curtis today tell Curtis from back then? Just fresh out of the Forerunner School of Ministry or Master's Commission and getting ready to take this next phase of life, knowing all that you know now, all the experience, the stuff that you've walked through, the work that the Lord's done in your life. What would you tell Curtis from back then?

Wisdom Across Time

Interesting question. I can't get this. I'm kind of glad you didn't ask me that one. I had one God tell me that he would tell him to watch his diet. Watch his diet. He said, eat healthier, it's a fair answer. I think I would tell myself back then, Curtis, just keep trusting God and know that he's got it all worked out. You're going to struggle. You're going to have a lot of, I don't know what to do moments. You're going to have moments where you feel like you've just forfeited it all. You're going to have victories. You're going to have good things happen in life. And through it all, just keep trusting and knowing that God's got it all laid out. And you're going to hit the mark as long as you continue to trust him and know that he loves you and just continue to believe.