How Rigo Found Freedom Through Faith After Addiction

you know, when I first came into the program, I was broken, you know, those opportunities, you know, those options, a lot of that contribute to who I am now, you know, and the person. I feel like it is the best, best place for somebody who wants help or needs help to be in, you know, but also to have a mind where you will be able to say to yourself, like, I don't want to be the same person. Yeah, I want to be different. Just keep yourself the time, you know, to really say, you know, God, just have your way. Yeah. Well, here I am. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to do it, but have your way. Never stop asking for help.

Podcast Changes and Teen Challenge Involvement

Welcome to another episode of Rebuild a Life After Addiction. For those of you who have been following along with the podcast for a while, we are in the process of making some changes. I have been really focusing on the podcast kind of underneath Mo and YouTube channel and all of that. Over the last couple of months, the Lord has kind of snuck me back into a Teen Challenge ministry, not just doing podcasting, and so—I’m chart pastoring—not that I was only doing podcasting. That would be nice. I mean, it would be so much easier, you know, but like, as I'm now kind of doing this Teen Challenge ministry again and focusing back on actually helping people rebuild their lives through the discipleship program.

I made a decision to move the podcast over and allow it to be a part of the Teen Challenge branding. I am really using the podcast as a tool to help people become aware of the program, but also, you know, to have an opportunity to speak to those who have engaged in Teen Challenge over the years. I’m excited. Thank you guys for jumping on the podcast and watching and following along. As we jump into this before we get into our conversation, I just want to encourage you if this is your first time here, please hit the like button and please subscribe to the channel. Everything that we're doing on this podcast is to help bring more awareness to addiction, to the struggles of people that face addiction, and ultimately, our goal is to see people get free and find a way to transform their lives.

The Structure of Teen Challenge and Life After Graduation

And so, I would encourage you if this is your first time here, please leave a comment. Maybe you have some topics that you would want to talk about or hear us talk about as I continue to go and search out guests. My friend Rico is here with us again today. We're not going to do the long introduction. He was a few episodes ago, so if you want to get to know him a little more personally, Rico and I all graduated from Shenandoah Teen Challenge, known each other for a long time, glad to call him a friend and a brother in Christ.

Ashley and I are in this process right now of organizing some of the administrative stuff at Teen Challenge, and we are looking through the old folders. Now we have to keep files for seven years, and so we’re going through and shutting everything seven years prior. I have a stack of folders on the back porch of probably 300 or 400 folders of just stuff that we're getting rid of. And that's not even every year that we're getting rid of; we're still going through other stuff, and it’s just amazing because when you work in a ministry like this, and you’re one or two people at a time, you don’t realize the opportunities you get over the years.

It was kind of humbling this week. We just did a graduation service; we had three guys complete the entire program, and I’ll pop some pictures out on the screen of, you know, all of that graduation. But, you know, we just stepped back into the ministry in October, and the program is now six months versus a year. This was the first group that we had successfully complete since we’ve been back. The service was a little over a week ago today, and it was just an electric environment. Like, we celebrated these guys and encouraged them as they move forward.

One of the things I’ve always said from the stage when we’re doing graduations is that the program starts today to finish, right? Now, for those who are watching that may not be completely aware of Teen Challenge, it is a program for adult men and women all across the country. Here in the Shenandoah Valley, we focus on men 18 and older. It’s a six-month program; we use drug treatment or drug rehabilitation because it’s a lack of a better word. If I had to describe Teen Challenge better, it would be a discipleship program for people struggling with addiction. They come into the program, they’re in a protected, safe environment, and everything that we do is centered around the Bible, centered around building a relationship with Christ.

There are Bible studies, there's curriculum, there's church attendance, there's prayer. And now, we can’t force people to pray, but these are required parts of the schedule where people are engaging in Christian discipleship hopefully willingly because it’s the only way it works. Now that I’m getting ready to take a breath, one of the things that I think about is that it is easy to do when you’re in a structured environment. Everything is taken care of, meals are provided, and there are some work assignments in the program, but I don’t have to go out and figure out what I’m going to do for a job, I don’t have to deal with the stressors of life, getting the car fixed, or fixing holes in whatever life brings us. It’s a very structured environment, and it’s easy to maintain spiritual disciplines.

So we always tell people when they graduate, that the program doesn’t really start until you finish. It’s the day that you leave Teen Challenge that you really start the program now, like you have to put the rubber to the road. One of the things I wanted to talk about, both of us being folks that have come out of Teen Challenge, is how do we get out of a structured environment like that and maintain consistency and spiritual disciplines, and maintain, you know, that maybe we start. So let’s hear you just share some of your personal experience, man.

Yeah, yeah, that was a long intro. That’s what I did. Yeah, I think that if we go back, when you first come into the program, like a lot of the Teen Challenge programs work in so many different ways for so many different people who are in struggles and needs. A lot of those that come in, you know, a lot of the times like, I used to hear from you guys talking when I came in was, you know, some people are sent here or court-appointed, you know, and they have no other way around.

It’s either jail time or rehab time, you know. What a better way, a better scenario to be sent to a place where you can actually start fresh and figure out how can I get myself together, you know? How can I correct myself from my old behaviors and my old ways to learn a different way to attack this new life or this new opportunity that I’m given? When I first came into the program, I mean, I shared on the last podcast that I was broken. You know, being broken gave me that vulnerability of coming into the program and saying, look, I just need a break from the world. I need a break from my own family, a break from friends; I need a break from pretty much everybody that knew me.

You know, coming into the program offered those opportunities, you know, the options, the requirements in the program, like Bible studies, prayer time, group studies, you know? I feel like a lot of that contributed to why I’m now the person I am. So I feel like it is the best place for somebody who wants help or needs help to be in. Right. You know, but also to have a mind where you will be able to say to yourself, like, I don’t want to be the same person. I want to be different.

We were just talking about that in Chapel last night that as a man thinks he is, and half the battle, most of the battle is renewing the mind. Yeah, right. Sin—we believe in the lifestyle of addiction, there’s a lot of discussion about whether it’s a disease, regardless, the way the lifestyle shows up leads us to an address, right? And that’s the part where like, if we’re going to stop sin and if we’re going to stop engaging the flesh, then we’ve got to go through this process of renewing our mind. Because James says that sin starts when we're drawn away by our own desires. The only way to change our desires is to change the living environment.

Teen Challenge, rightfully so, focuses on discipleship. How better to transform the mind and renew the mind than by letting it be washed by the water, the Word of God? And it starts to change the way we think. What we see a lot of times, and this is one of the things I try to put my mind around, is that guys come into the program—they see this thing work; it’s effective. Two things happen: either they continue in it when they leave or they don’t. The ones who continue tend to have more success, you know? The ones who don’t tend to relax and kind of fall off. I think that struggle is...

I don’t say it. I do now because I’m a pastor, right? But when, like, I don’t know, even now, it’s not the same intensity when I was in Teen Challenge. I don’t get to sit in classes five days a week, three hours a day. You know what I’m saying? I don’t have somebody telling me that I have to pray at six-thirty, even on Tuesday. I don’t have scripture projects to turn in, or memorization to do.

So it’s almost like you need to be in a Bible college. Yeah, pretty much, right? So obviously the level is going to go down, but what is your life looking like? Let’s get beyond being in the program. What was the day you walked out of the program like?

Yeah, and you know, just being able to change our mindsets. My mindset was, you know, like, hey, you’re going into a bad moment. You’re going to be exposed, that’s for starters. You’re going to be exposed to your family, your old friends, and just knowing that I was heading back home, it was almost like, at the same time, a relief, because I think one of the most important parts of walking out of the program or graduating is really knowing where you’re going to and how you want to start, you know, your first day out of the program. I feel like I was mentally ready. I didn’t want to go back to my old ways. I had that certainty in my heart and mind.

I had a pastor who was always willing to, you know, open the doors of their home for me to come in and encourage me, whether by prayer or straight-up conversations. If something was bothering me, or if I felt like I was being tempted with something, I was always able to share that. And that’s why, you know, as we are now, it’s so easy for me to say, look, man, I’m struggling with this, or I’m dealing with this. And it’s because we are in this nature, you know, that is a constant battle, like the Bible describes it. The flesh is always contradicting the spirit, and so I saw it as always a back-and-forth battle. When I was walking out of the program, I felt like I had a good foundation outside the ministry, outside Teen Challenge, and that helped me stay firm, you know, and stay focused on what I really wanted my life to be like.

The recovery world talks a lot about people, places, and things, right? Places being one of those things, and people. But what I'm hearing, and even in the lead-up to this, is like, it's the environment of Teen Challenge, right? It's the boundaries, the accountability, the people who are there encouraging you. It is hard to find that brotherhood outside of Teen Challenge because not everybody's pursuing the same thing. It would seem as if, if we're going to set ourselves up for success to continue in spiritual disciplines, to continue in the same life of freedom beyond the program that we had in the program, then the environment that we're walking into really matters.

Oh yeah, and what even the downsides are, you know? What are some of the struggles that you’ve had with like setting that environment? Because that’s not easy for anyone, really. It isn’t because, you know, remember when we walk into the program, you know, and I’m sure you went through this when you first went into the program, but when you walk into the program, you leave an old life behind you.

That old way never changes. It may change for someone or for a lot of people, but it will never change when you come out of the program. The only way for us to be able to change that life is for us to know that we’re heading back and we need to let go, you know, and let God. A lot of the times what happens is, you know, this was in the back of my mind, the time was, man, when I go back home. I have so many friends; it was hard for me, that kind of, like, letting go. And a lot of the times I feel like we get trapped walking out of the program, but I want to go see who is out there.

I know that person is not going to give me anything good. I know that person is not going to feed me spiritually. I know that person is not going to help me be confident in what I have done in the program. I think a lot of the times we face those struggles is because we're not strong enough to walk away from friendships, like you mentioned in one of your podcasts, or saying no and just walking away. I think a lot of those struggles are tied to family members that you can let go of for a certain period, friendships, and places—even places.

Places were very important for me because going into the program, I played sports; I played soccer, and I used to travel a lot to Harrisonburg to play on the weekends. I feel like even after the program, I thought, oh, I could handle myself; I could go back and play soccer with my old friends. But then I found myself caught up with their language, and it might not have been doing drugs or drinking, but it would be with their language, the way they spoke, their attitudes. It would cause me to also start to feel those emotions, like getting angry or being upset.

I say, if so many slack tack on me, so I would have one side, and I'm sorry I don’t know if I think the podcast over a creature effect hurts a little more, like, I’m not going to have a role in a rugged enough for most people to struggle with addiction because my life has been cleaned up, and I'm on the other side of it, you know what I’m saying? And so like, I'm going to get out; I don’t have anything against tattoos; I’m just scared of me.

It's just funny you mentioned that, like, the language, because that is such a characteristic of completely changing who we are. We don’t talk the same; we don’t act the same; we don’t dress the same. People wouldn’t know you used to be an addict unless we told them, you know? I’m so grateful because that’s nothing we did. It’s the grace of God, right? So sorry, I just wanted to make that point.

And it plays a big role because I mean, even now, imagine 10 or 11 years ago when I came into the program, and I can still tell you, like, if I have employees, you know? I give work to some people, and it’s also very frustrating when you have certain people who don't go to church or are not Christians, but you have to be kind, you have to be loving, and you have to be merciful. I agree, there aren’t you being environmental when you set standards. We don’t shoot a recording game, yeah, yeah, not right. I mean, but, you know, it's seriously like, I'm not asking.

I don’t want to engage that a little bit more, because I’ve heard that before, you know, when I challenge people in that role, we talk about environment and people, right? Encouraging us, like, again, if we’re spending the majority of our time with people who don’t value the same things we value and pursue the same things we pursue...

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Grappling with Judgment and Evangelism

down and say, hey, can I tell you what I read in John today? Like, there's still smoke in the mess behind it. Like, they're not going to sit down and have a conversation, like, and I know there's a heart and a desire to evangelize, but like, there's got to be more people pushing me toward the direction that I'm trying to go than pulling me away from it. And so, how did you grapple with that part? Because, I know, I started, like, I want to save them, I want to rescue them, and I feel like I'm coming off as judgmental when I call them on their stuff, and then they come up and like, who are you to call me on that? I don't remember, you know, you remember, you know, how did you deal with someone? It's crazy because, you know, a lot of, like, today's society, you know, it has gone so, so out of person in so many areas, and one of them is even having respect for, you know, for each other, you know, and I feel like one of the things that God really dealt with me, about, but I was so proud about a year and a half ago, you know, after having eight employees ended up with just myself, and at times one more, I started to just really get close and closer to God, and really listening to, you know, what was happening, what was I doing wrong? Because I'm like, there's no way out of having eight just myself for weeks, and I was like, it's got to be something that I'm doing wrong, something that, and, you know, I clearly got this message, you know, was the only thing that you're doing wrong is not, in my, like, it's not on my eyes, you know, it's not that I see wrong, it's in the eyes of others that you're doing wrong. Because you are trying to do something opposite to what they want, to what they want, you know, and daily, daily, I started to remember, you know, the things that I was doing, you know, and what I was doing was I was confronting, like, I was confronting their sin in a way that I wasn't being harsh, but I was just being transparent, and I was just being, you know, open to them seeing me as who I was, and, you know, who I was trying to be, and so I was confronting them with, you know, like, a lot of the time with smoking too much, you know, smoking cigarettes too much, and, out of the time, just being on the phone too much, you know, during work hours, and a lot of the time, just even asking for so many things, when there weren't being as, you know, as respectful, or as, we can say, as, as 100% committed to, you know, to the company, to the work, you know, and so for me, that was very hard to deal with, because I was fighting my own battles, you know, I was still fighting my own battles, but I was trying to get them to understand that, that Jim, not just because I'm a Christian, not just because I spend hours in the Bible, when I spend hours praying, or I spend almost every day at church, right, make me any different than they are, you know, that we are all the same in God's eyes, and so the only thing that kept me, kept me afloat, it was that I can't be like that anymore, you know, and I was trying to, to minister that to them, and, and like you say, how can you be, how can you not be judgmental? The truth is that we have to be judgmental because we care about it, I care about your situation, I want to help you, so how can I help you, if you're not allowed to hear me, if you're not allowed to understand the truth that I'm trying to speak to you, you know, and, and when I was all alone by just myself, at times, God will just come in and, and just minister to me, and, and will say what you don't speak, yeah, you will give me an account for, and that, and that itself, it crushed me, because at the end of the day, we are humans, we will make mistakes, but there's one thing that God has laid on us, and that is the burden to speak the word, right, and to be as truthful as we can with our testimony, and how we walk in this, you know, how we walk in this walk, yeah, that is not going to be perfect, but we strive in every day to be better than yesterday, you know, and, and now I have had two guys come back after three, two years, they have come back, and now they have about four to six months working back with me, and what they have said to me is that, Rigo, what you spoke to me those years ago, are now resounding in my ear, because you wanted the best for me, and that's why you confronted me, you know, and now one, one has a daughter, smokes less, the other one has a daughter, is married, yeah, and goes to church, yeah, so, you know, and, and when I look back and, and they're coming back and, and, and speaking to me that, the only way that I'm able to think, right, is because of the things that you spoke to me, and you know how the word says that, whatever you could say with your mouth, then God does the rest, and so I'm able to see that now.

Navigating Spiritual Growth and Community

Yeah, that's the part where I had, I had learned, a lot coming out of Teen Challenge, was that like, there's such a radical transformation that happens in people's lives, like going through a program when Teen Challenge and going through the adult process and being in an intense environment, and, and the Lord doing, like, but we were way at the bottom, right, like, like, I don't know, when I went in, the TC was typically the last choice for a lot of people, and most people are preferring the shorter term programs, they're preferring, and now quick, you know, 38, 20 rehab, or whatever, fans, and like to get a year-long program, everything else, every door shut, I know it was a case of my life, and every door shut, and Teen Challenge and my life shorts, because I didn't want to go anywhere near that Jesus stuff, right, and, and I think one of the things I've had to learn coming out of it is that it's easy to see drastic change, because the environment is an equator, it's like a holy spirit hospital, you know, and it's a, it's a place of healing, it's like, it's like somebody going into the yard getting checked into the doctor, and of course, from the condition they were in before going into the hospital, there's a lot of improvement, it feels very drastic.

The problem that I have is seeing that in my friends on the street, who weren't in an equator, and sometimes lacking patience with the spiritual growth of other people, because I had grown so fast, and non-spell, where you know what I'm saying, and my God healed so much while I was away, and understanding that, like, there needs to be some patience with people, and trying to just consistently let that out, and, and really a big part of that was doing the spiritual disciplines day in and day out, showing people that, hey, this was real, like, I'm gonna be at church, like, I'd set some of the standard with a lot of my friends, and I'm glad we ended up here, because we started out talking about spiritual disciplines, but really, the reality is like if we're not engaged with people who are encouraging that, we'll never continue in it, and I had friends reach out to me, and I would offer, they wanted to connect, both friends, and I would invite them to church, so I would love to connect with you, but like, like, I'm gonna go, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna be the minority, I got, you know, in this area, I got one of the people who are, they're more for me than against me, that we have a temptation pops up, I got more people that are going to encourage me to say no, than I do this, I'm gonna encourage me to say yes, and so those are the hard decisions that had to be made, and it was not easy, I felt like I was betraying some of my friends, I felt like I was a man at some point, but ultimately, like, you know, 17 years later, the, it was worth it, it pays off, it paid off, you know, and, and so that's part of a man that, the building, that consistency, the other thing that came up while you were talking is on the approval piece, and that took me, you know, a long time to deal with it, that I think I still struggle with it in certain times, like, on insecurity, you know, I am, but that's why I went after drugs, like, I didn't know I was just a teenager, and I actually unpacked this with somebody the other day, it was a podcast, I was doing with Chepo on the role of trauma and addiction, and on, as a teenager, I felt inadequate, I wasn't the greatest at sports, and I didn't have a ton of friends, you know what I'm saying, like, I didn't feel like I could accomplish a lot, I was a bad student, and then I was me, a PhD boy, I was a rebellious kid, whatever, all that stuff, I ended up choosing math, because it made me feel like I could accomplish more in a shorter period of time, it made me feel like I, everything that I wasn't when I was clean, I could be now, now obviously the lie to that is that I didn't do anything well, you know, I was restoring my life, but like, I tried to unpack why I did that, and so, like, I look for that, I even look for that piece now, it's like, man, I'm like the identity, the insecurity, and like, if I'm not around people that are spurred to be one, toward pursuing Jesus, like I'm going to go to the lowest common denominator people are going to accept me, you know, if this person accepts me, there's more people that aren't following Jesus than are accepting me, that that insecurity is not dealt with, you know, it takes a while against that point where you're able to stand on your own and not need to either say be drawn into that, and that was a process, and that's why I think the drastic changes have to happen.

Yeah, no, because I mean, you know, and like, like how you were saying, a lot of the times we want, you know, others to change when we were speaking to them, they actually want them to get what you're saying, and they can just walk out and be completely different, you know, but the truth is that, you know, they have to go through roundabouts, you know, they have to put their mindset of, I can't be like that, you know, and now I can tell you with the two that I have, right, you know, they have walked through a process, and every chance I get, every chance I feel, you know, I always ask God every day, like, let me see what you want to, you know, let us see what you want to speak, and every now and then I will, you know, ask them, like, just straight out questions, but I saw how you're doing, you know, and it's just to, because I care, you know, because I want to help them, you know, and it's up to them to open up and share, and, you know, and share. You know, one of them just recently, you know, he started coming back from, from from Ronald to Charlottesville, you know, it was a long trip, and I say, one inch just moved, you know, it's like, my wife doesn't get it, and all this and all that, I said, you all got to come together as one, and where you have to, you know, the provision to provide for your family, that's what you need to be, you know, and is that you have to do that, and so that ended up happening now, they're back in Charlottesville, and he's the one that goes to church now, and, you know, just recently I asked him, I said, so where are you struggling with now, you know, because I've seen you, and, and some days I've seen you off, and this and that, and I say, are you using, you know, and for somebody to ask that question, yeah, like, the first thing you probably can tell me is like, man, here we go again, right now, I mean, you're going to start thinking that I'm judging you, but I'm not judging you, right, I'm interested in you, right, that's good, and I want to help you, you know, so when I did that, he, you know, I could see it in his eyes, you know, and, and that touched me, you know, and it moved, it moved me to a place in my beginnings to say, I'm no different than you are, yeah, as a struggle that you have now, I already added, yeah, now I'm more mentally mature, and I can tell you that you have to get away from that, and start going to church a little bit more often, yeah, you know, and push yourself every day to, you know, get plugged in, get plugged in, get plugged in, and ever since then, I've seen the change in this way, you know, I've seen the change, and he just yesterday, you know, like, you know, at day before I come it over, you know, I feel happy, I get in my knee fixed, and then I get her, you know, my left foot, and, and I hear a word from him, and you know what he said, he said, three go, all things work, but I could, yeah, yeah, it's good, oh, those will be love, and that, when I ever see that word from him, it filled me, and it gave my whole back, yeah, because I said, I'm hearing this from somebody that I just kept on, kept on, kept on, you know, and pushing, and pushing, and I'm not going to lie to you, when you are being confronted, you're going to get upset, yeah, and he got so many times upset with me, but when I gave this word from him, I feel like God is using me to accomplish something, you know, and that is, that is an elevation itself, because, you know, at the end of the day, we go back to her, you know, we go back to her, or, or, you know, or place of, of, you know, of origin, where we come out from, to come to a rehab program, and we go back there, and we just have to have a clear mind of what do we really want to achieve, yeah, not on our own, but with God, you know, guiding us and meeting us to, so, and it's really, you know, it's really a fight, a daily fight, but it's pleasant, man, like, it's, like the suffering, like the word says, like, you know, Apostle Paul said, like, the suffering that we now face is nothing compared for what is in store for us, you know, and that is just a, you know, a boost itself, because, I mean, at the end of the day, just to hear a word from somebody that you have confronted for so many years, yeah, you know, seeing, you know, seeing the, the, their progress every day, and knowing that now I can stand firm and say, look, man, you come in a word, and you come in a word for me, this is what you want to get, you know, you're going to get it wrong, but it's said to say, it's your person, if you didn't trust you, yeah, he didn't ever let you speak into his life, you know, and like, like, you know, you think about this and how vital it is to be around people that we can trust. That's hard to do, especially when we come out of the life stuff and come out to where we're so used to people, like, you know, manipulating and stabbing us in the back, whatever, you know, and, and the lifestyle of, of sin kind of mars all of that, but eventually, like, right, we've got to get to a point where like, that perspective, if you made a statement a few minutes ago where you said, like, he realized that him saying that you saying it to was not because you hated him, you aren't trying to put him down there, but you loved him enough to speak that into his life. And I think that is the part where we're really internally, like, right, if we're going to be involved in a community with people, whether we're in the community or whether we're giving in the community, obviously, it should be reciprocity. You should be given take happening there, but like that, ultimately, we're going to engage in a community of people who trust. And that may be hard for some people depending on what they've been through, but like, but like without that, like, you know, like, if you, I think that's where a lot of people do struggle, like, because, like, you show up in, in, in, in, in ministry world, and at times, like, there's a lot of back-batting, and there's a lot of cross-talk, they have gossiping, putting people down behind the scenes, you know, ripping people's character apart, and it's like, it's like, man, I, I was better off in the street, you know? And so like, if as the church, like, you know, we're not being willing to provide that place where safety for people. And, and like, and, and loving people and, and get people room to be vulnerable, near, but then on the other hand, people that are vulnerable, it's like, we've got, you've got to be willing to submit yourself to the accountability, you know? And that's a part where I think a lot of people struggle is, you know, it seems maybe easier for those of us who have been in recovery programs, wasn't easy at first. But now it's like, how does talk about my job with anybody? He's like, he's not anybody, but really easier than, you know, like, I, I've seen, I've seen the struggle of hiding, right? And so, um, so building the spirit of disciplines, right? So, yeah. So we start a team challenge helps us, right? It helps us establish a routine. We end up, you know, finding that support community, you know, and we, we go through the average team while we're in the program. We have those people around us. A lot of the stuff that you and I have been talking about kind of, you know, we've got to get friends, we've got the good encouragement, we've got the people that we get to speak into their lives, they speak in our lives. So we're, we're establishing that the communities there, you know, but like we're setting goals as well. You brought that up, right? And so, you know, where do I need to go spiritually? Right? That's a part of coming out of our program. Like, we may deal with the addiction and some other stuff, but, but like, now we get to deal with money habits. And now we get to deal with like, um, how we handled female relationships, male to female relationships, you know, like, in a toxic manner before. And now we've got to do it guys away. Like, then we get to grapple with the husbands, raising kids, you know, and so it's like, I'm going to have to keep setting goals to grow spiritually. Yeah. And then as I progress in life, I'm going to adapt and adjust along the way. I think it was necessary for them to.

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have me in triage or whatever the word is or what they do. I mean, they got me on the dials, you know, the blood pressure cuff, and I got the oxygen or whatever. If I'm in the hospital, you know, like, now that I'm out of the hospital, I got to do preventative care. You know what I'm saying? I got to do a one-point therapy maintenance, whatever that looks like, if it's a physical sickness. And if I'm dealing with the sense of this in my life, that is going to be a consistent issue, like, then I've got to be willing to adapt to the justice along the way in bro.

Spiritual Disciplines and Adaptation

So how is that, how is it on your spiritual disciplines? I'm getting to a question, adjusted along the course of your life. What is on the fight? So yeah, I've always been a little hard, and I can say I've almost been like on discipline about, you know, after coming out of the program. And the reason why is because, I mean, of course, when you come out of the program, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, um, you know, there's a lot that, especially now with family, you know, being a father of four, you know, is one of the work here, there, you know, you're pretty much all over the place. So it's kind of hard at times to set up, let's say, a specific hour, you know, a specific day to do so and so, you know, all those type of things.

But I think how I'm able to manage that—and I don't use all of these other things as, you know, as a, as a, you know, say, I'm too busy to do this, right? You know, but I have come accustomed to getting out, you know, in the mornings and just starting to give praise and thanks to God, you know, for the day. And I do everything that I didn't use to do more. I do it more now, which is to be connected with the Spirit, you know, to be able to just like, if I'm driving to work, you know, I'm praying. Yeah, you know, even if I'm not praying, I'm just talking to God, you know, and, and I don't try to fight over it with what the Spirit has laid on my heart, you know, and at times I may think of so-and-so and I just start praying, you know, and I start thanking God for them, you know, and I start doing so many other things, you know, like just Bible scriptures would fly in my head.

The Importance of Vulnerability and Community

When the time comes to, you know, to read the Word, to pray, to do this, to do that, you know, we're constantly sharing with the kids, like, you know, this is not good, this is good, you know, and, and telling them like, oh, you know, you have to do this differently, you know, we want you to do this and want you to be better than we, you know, than we were. And it's just a constant reminder for me that, a lot of the times, you know, as humans, you know, as Christians, I think a lot of the time we also set like a, like this hour is for God, you know? I mean, and we forget that we have to have a constant communication, a constant relationship with Christ, you know? It doesn't matter that hour, it doesn't matter the day, like we have to be constantly hearing Him, because the moment we stop listening to Him, that's the moment we dredge, you know? That's the moment I catch something that I shouldn't have, right?

And so I'm applying that in myself more that I need to be a vessel ready to receive at all times, you know, regardless of my time alone with the Lord. And so, you know, I just have to be ready at all times, yeah, that's why, you know, that's why the Word says to be ready in and out of season, you know, so that no matter what happens, you have just this joy and this love inside of you that is overwhelming, you know, for, for you to just keep on moving, you know? Because anything can happen at any given day, any given minute, you know? But the one thing I have learned and I'm learning is that in those mornings and those minutes, I want to be connected, you know, and I may sound like I'm crazy, but I'd rather be crazy, or I may sound like I'm crazy, right? But I know why I'm connected with, you know, yeah, man, that's such a powerful statement.

What that statement you said right there is a life-changing statement for somebody if they'll get it, you know? I'm a vessel ready to receive in any moment. It’s God that gives grace to the humble, but He resists the proud. It is, I don't care what the room I'm in, like, if I'm the smartest person in the room, as it’s been said before, then I’m in the wrong room or I’m the wrong person, because everybody has something to teach us, and it’s not even just people, but it’s the Lord, we’re obviously open to receive from Him. But God uses other people. And it is a dangerous place to be in a prideful mindset to go into any given moment and think that nobody in the room has anything to teach us, and we're unwilling to receive counsel, receive advice. But we're only there to give our advice, and if that becomes toxic behavior, it becomes really detrimental for spiritual growth because God does resist.

So if we're only there to give constantly, to give care, to give gifts, and we’re never in the posture of receiving, then we’re on our way to a fall, because what does the scripture say? Pride comes before a fall. Like it’s, pride comes before a haughty spirit, and a haughty spirit before a fall. And I think that’s the part of like, man, what a powerful statement, like I'm ready to receive in any given moment. Yeah, that spiritual discipline, and that too, like it’s not, remember, and that too, it can get tricky, right? Because as a Christian, a lot of us could be thinking, oh, we are ready to receive from God, right? Not just from your brother and sister in Christ, right?

Yeah, but also from those who are not Christians, because a lot of the times, God will use them to let you know, hey, that is not, that is not the way, you know what I mean? And we start to bail through a donkey, right? You know, and like, and kind of if I was less G-Rain, and I’m going to use that word, but like, but like, man, like, you know, on, yeah, God can speak to us through anybody, but like we’ve got to be willing to be open to receive. And I think it gets easier going back to like really the thing we talked about environment.

Yeah, like God will use unbelievers, yes, we use non-Christians to, we use circumstances to speak to us. Like everything can speak to us, like by the Lord, but like realistically, like are we in environments where we’re like ready to receive, like where it’s conducive for our growth? And that is going to take intentionality. That’s the part about recovery, discipleship, all of this, like it is not that complicated. Like people that try to like, you know, like I get there’s some science and all of that, and therapy’s important. Like going to a therapist and doing all, I get all of that is important. It’s all good. But at the end of the day, people place their stings, like, like what environment in some of I put into mindset, we think about this so simply when it comes to work.

Like if you’re at a toxic work culture, you’re going to hate your job, you’re not going to perform well, you’re not going to do well, you’re not going to get along with anybody because the culture is toxic, right? And if that is how we’re living our lives in toxic cultures, then eventually we've got to like, we’ve got to make changes. We’ve got to go through the hard days so that we can get to the better thing. But if we’re not willing to do the hard thing at first, and like especially for those coming out of the program, you’ve already done the hard day, you know? Like why let the enemy deceive you into running back into an environment that got you into Teen Challenge in the first place? I’ll pass you just, and I don’t have any choice, like I’m committed to them.

It’s my, I’ll ever, like, like we will always have choices, and we do. We always have a choice, and it is really just seeing how the choices may be lived in. I get that, and we do always have a choice, and we have to be able to make that decision. So, man, it takes courage. It takes courage to also like, be able to say like I’m willing to receive because I’m not just saying to you like I’m willing to receive just from God, I’m just willing to receive from anybody that can bring out the best of me, you know, and bring out the worst of me so that I can change. Because a lot of the time we have a lot of things that we’re dealing with that nobody knows.

And a lot of the times, like I told you that I shared last time I was here, like how my wife has been used by the Lord in like peeling me as an onion from things that, like way past my childhood that she doesn’t like she had no idea, you know, but God was suffering enough to use her, to say like I gotta get rid of this on him, I gotta get rid of this on him. And I’ve been on the program 14 years ago, 13 years ago, and stuff is still on right now, still peeling off, peeling off, peeling off. But the more He peels off, the better I feel as a person, as a human, you know, as a Christian, as a man of God, you know? And the more I’m drawing into the truth, you know, and the truth, a lot of the times too, is for people that come into the program.

You know, they have a mindset, oh, I mean, I can accomplish this program so I can walk out of here and be back in the world, but they don’t have a, they don’t have a clear picture of what they really want to do with their lives when they walk out of the program. Transparency and authenticity, you just sent it, I can lie, why aren’t people to bring out the best in the worst of me? Here’s what happens, when we only ever show people the best of us, then when the worst of us shows up, it runs from the set to play. But if we’re willing to be vulnerable and authentic enough upfront to allow them to see the worst of us, like I’m just, I’m just going to show you, this is just who I am, like me love me, hate me, whatever, it’s just who I am, and we show people the worst of us upfront, like, and those people accept us and pull us in, then they’re going to be the people that help us get to the best version of ourselves.

And that is man, that is such a breakdown truth. You keep dropping knowledge and just don’t know it’s, but like, but that’s the only man, that’s it right there. Like vulnerability. I mean, I shared this on a few podcasts, like vulnerability is not just telling people; it’s giving people the details of what you’re going through, that if they want to damage you with a dick here, oh yeah, that’s true vulnerability, like it hurts. And so if we will, our wives typically see that, busy every time us, they know who we really are. And if we’re willing to allow those people into that balance of our lives, that’s not for everybody, I don’t mistake. God, I’m not saying that. Like, there needs to be some discernment.

Like we’re not going to get up on stage on the carpet and tell everybody, we’re all out. That’s crazy. But like, if we’re willing to draw people in close enough, because they can see the worst parts of us, then when the ugly comes out, it’s not a surprise. It’s like, I knew you were struggling with that, like, let me help you, you know, versus who the heck is this person? And hopefully who you are, I’ve been for it, you’ve been five, six years or less, and then you didn’t know the person. She hadn’t; it’s like, and then you go to trade, and then it’s harder to engage. Like that’s the part where love gets difficult, having to love through betrayal or perceived betrayal, and that’s a whole another topic for me.

That conversation done like, man, what kind of stuff? It’s just like, you know, like you’re saying, you know, the more, the more vulnerable, you know, vulnerable, we show, and who we are, and like who we are right now, you know, it’s going to tell you what I really want, you know? Because if I’m sharing things, if I’m speaking things to you, you know, and it’s almost like if I’m confessing things to you, you know, it’s because I want answers, you know? It’s because I want, like, I want options, you know? And I want the best options that are led by the Word, you know? And that’s what’s happening now, because as more transparent you are, the more clear it becomes for everybody else, you know, and it’s like, at the Word that I do, you know, and out of the guys, if I’m upset because something didn’t go right and they made a mistake, or you know, just something didn’t go wrong, something went wrong, and they see that I’m upset, they will come front, they’ll come to me and they will say, we go, it’s okay, we’ll fix it, yeah, but we’ll be able to correct me as well.

Like, you know, in those moments, it’s not that I’m going to go sin in the body, but it’s that I’m able to hold myself back from, you know, being the worst of me, you know, and able to collect myself from the correction of people that I have around me. Now, that I have around me, who I have also helped build their confidence and their self-esteem to know that they can also be better than me. Because at the end of the day, that’s why, you know, I just don’t want that from my kids, you know, but I want that from anybody who’s around me. I want them to be way better than I am. I want them to do greater things than I do, you know, and I want them to, I mean, to be the man and the woman of God that God created them to be, because that’s what the Word says.

Yeah, I think that’s why I didn’t compute for a lot of people when they leave a program like T.C. and go into the regular church, because like, like typical community, the apostles had everything in common during the church, right? They fellowshiped, they broke bread together, and like they, they devoted themselves to the T.C. and the work of God, you know, and they made sure everybody had their needs, man. And how they just like, like when I see that model in scripture, I see a scripture that says there, and I look at how we do life in the program, like I see the New Testament church. It really is a beautiful representation of it.

And problems were so dark and busy outside of the program, like we got 60 minutes on a Sunday, and like we’ve got maybe some small groups during the week, you know, for lucky. And if we do life with a few families, you know, we’re doing well. Like our church has done a good job connecting with people, like doing more, like we, you know, Thursday nights, we had 30, 40 people out for the graduation from the church. So I think our church has done a good job doing that. But like T.C. is, like it is daily, like it is every single day, no rights. And I imagine the early church did a lot of that together, and like what would our churches look like?

Like, you know, like it scares people, you know? Like I think like co-authors and all this crazy stuff, but like, but man, that’s just like, I imagine there was a lot of this, a lot of sharing happening with one another, every single day. They were close enough to know, you know, where we can hide in 60 minutes a week, and nobody really knows where we are. Yeah, but it’s hard to hide when you spend 10 hours a day out with people. You know, like you can fit the small one day, but you go strong to think it’s seven days a week.

I just wanted to pause real quick and say again, this podcast, rebuilding life, we’re talking a lot about Teen Challenge, and I want to encourage you, if you’re watching down in the description, nobody will like to send them a valid adult team challenge. And if you are getting any value from this podcast, then please feel free to click the link and support the ministry. We are a non-profit, you know, we try to do our best to earn everybody. Excuse me, we try to do our best to not turn anybody away because of resources. So as we continue to shout out the content out, help people through the residential program, your support makes it possible.

So if you would, feel compelled, no pressure, click the link and give a donation—whether one time or monthly, it would go a long way in helping us continue to minister to people. And I'm really excited too, because we've got two concerts coming up August 1st and August 2nd. Josh Baldwin from Bethel is coming out. You're just going to be awesome. It’s going to be really good nights of worship, one in Clearbrook, Virginia, one in Stewart’s Drop, Virginia. And so for the local folks that are watching on, I’ll put a link down in the description for tickets to that as well, and it’s just another way to come out and worship, enjoy that great night in music and fellowship, and honoring God, but also support the ministry.

Man, as we wrap up, Rico, any, any, I don't know, we were ensconced about Bible reading and disciplines, but we didn't end up there. So if all the folks, man, just to kind of round this conversation off. And I know, I mean, you know, one of the things that was going through my mind right now was that, you know, like a lot of the things that we spoke about, it's pretty much being, you know, being humble, you know, being humble, literally with everybody, you know, I'd be honest and transparent with who you are. I think that one of the things that God has spoken over my life is that it doesn’t matter, you know, where I end up, but that if I’m humble and I’m just transparent with what I desire to do for the kingdom, you know, I know that He’s going to...

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The Mission of Speaking Truth

To place me in the right spot because one of the things that I've always said to God is that, you know, if everything that Jesus went through, you know, for our salvation, you know, to give us the hope and the future, you know, that is now waiting for us, you know, I feel that we can climb over mountains, you know, for our first kingdom here in the arts. And I think that we are on a mission to save souls, speak the word, and be bold in who we are, you know, as Christians. And I'd be afraid, you know, to speak the truth because, you know, Jesus Christ died for speaking the truth, you know, and the word says in the Bible that, you know, almost like, why would I be afraid of men, you know, what can men do to me, you know, for me to hold back on what I can actually give back to others, even if that is speaking the wrong truth?

As much as people don't like confrontations, I think one of the things that we have to be bold enough to know the times when the Spirit wants to speak, we must speak. We can't go back because you never know when the freedom of that person, of that soul, is in the tip of your lips, you know. And I think that that is what I'm trying to live up to now, that God called me to be set free, so that I can help free others. You know, from the struggles of coming into the program, graduating the program, coming back to the program to serve twice, and just being in this mountain, you know, being in this valley.

Finding Peace and Community in the Valley

I tell my wife the peace, the joy that I have received in this mountain, even if I'm just dropping through, yeah, it's insane, you know, and that is because God is getting ready to do something amazing in this valley, you know, and it's calling a lot of people to come in. One of the best and better ways to come and see what God is doing in this valley, you know, is to come in and experience, you know, if you're nearby, experience the church, the love in the church, the community, and the freedom that you have to worship God.

To get to know a personal experience, you know, of the love of God in your heart—I say it for those who are struggling and, you know, fighting anything, any addiction. It can be anything, pretty much, just give yourself the time, you know, to really say, you know, God, just have your way. You see, you know, here I am, I don't know what to do, I don't know how to do it, but have your way, you know, invite Him in and let Him come into your heart and take over.

It doesn't take much, but to recognize that you need Him, you know, and that's the best advice I can give, you know, is to let Him in and let Him have His way. His blessing is the best thing that you can ever do. I will not trade what I now have in Him, then through Him, for what I had in the past, you know, and that's crazy because what I had in the past, it's like you were saying, you know, I pretty much had it all; I just didn't have Him. Well, it was really good, and that was really all that I needed.

And I said it in the last podcast, you know, I had it all, but I didn't have Him, and I think now is the opposite. I have Him, even though I might not have all that I need, but I say Him is not. So it's amazing, man, it's amazing, and I thank God for the opportunity. I thank you for the opportunity, you know, and we just bless one of the things I always take away from our conversations, you know, is your focus on the humility and trying to keep that center and keep that focus, man.

I would really even challenge those watching: life recovery or not, addiction or not. I know there are some folks that are families that are not in the program and maybe go to the church or are connected to the ministry. They're going to watch these shows, and one thing that I would take as a great takeaway from this conversation, if I had to sum it up in one quick sentence: never stop asking for help. That's really all this is, whether it be going to a recovery program, going to see challenges in asking for help.

If we go into the Bible looking for answers, we're asking for help. Whether it be going to the church and connecting with the community, and I'm worshiping, I'm asking for help, like I'm humble, I realize that I'm always just another way to say I'm always in a position to receive. If we can get over that, I'll kill our pride enough to ask for help the first time, then it will be found to be that much easier.

The Bible says in James, I think it says, if anyone lacks wisdom, let them ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, without holding back. So if we're talking about maturity, disciplines, and growing beyond the program, keep asking for help because there are going to be people that are going to show up. That's the other lie that I think we believe: nobody cares. Well, that's not true. There are a lot of people that care.

You may not be in proximity of anybody that cares about you right now, you can't see it, then it is a matter of, okay, how do I get in proximity to people who are going to want to help me get my life together and help me pursue the best that the Lord has for me? And so just an encouragement as I wrap up, man, never stop asking for help.

Keep asking, and if you need help, I'm going to leave the link to the program in the description below. SVTC.info, you can click to get help now, but schedule a call with an admissions counselor, and we will help you get your life on the right track. If you're not in the area, call us anyways; we're connected to 300 other Teen Challenges across this country. There's somewhere nearby that you can get the help that you need.

And thank you, guys. Thank you, Rico, for coming. I want to thank you all for watching another episode of Rebuilding Life After Addiction. Smash the like button, hit subscribe, is that what they say? Subscribe, like, leave a comment, and if you have any questions or feedback, drop that in the comments below. God bless. God bless.