One "Yes" at a Time: How Ministry Shaped Our Marriage

you show up on social media a lot the story is I didn't like you at first you still don't like me now sometimes my mindset come home from Bible school and then I met you being accepted and adopted in by a father so that's when the Lord really shifted my heart well here we are how do you feel about doing this it's extremely out of my comfort zone but here I am right doing the things yeah it's funny cuz I've been out here doing these like for months almost a full year I think 50 a couple episodes have went up wow right now life is a little crazy I got three episodes ready to edit and get published it's been fun talking to people and so like one of the things you and I talked about was like getting a chance to just sit down have a conversation and maybe people who learn a little bit about our backstory cuz you show up on social media a lot on my feed and you are the only video that I've had that has got almost a half a million views a little real of you laughing and so which is ridiculous yes I feel the same way like that's viral it's not really viral but it's viral for my page and like for it to go that crazy and there was no effort in that video no and today it's very random we've been out here for 30 minutes setting up and yeah and so you have been on my page a lot people see your face and your pictures they like them more than mine well it is what it is so let's talk a little bit about our life and story together and one of the things I think I thought would be fun to talk about especially since we do a lot of like addiction related stuff on the podcast and sharing a lot about stories and testimonies and some of the struggles of the rebuild and thinking about how you and I met all those years ago so we've been married what 15 years now 15 yeah one year more than Chloe and So for anybody that's doing math we have a daughter that is 14 and we got married a year prior she was born 13 days after our oneye anniversary right and so that's cool but let's talk about us meeting back then you not coming from a drug and alcohol background right and me having that history being fresh out of Teen Challenge and so like I guess first and foremost what everybody wants to know is what were you thinking right well I guess it was really just the Jesus Factor right my mindset come home from Bible school and then I met you to another friend and so the whole drug Factor wasn't like a thing it was the Jesus Factor now and seeing that like your walk was real and that you had intentions to be a Ministry that drove everything and the story is I didn't like you at first right yes but you still don't like me now sometimes I feel like you wanted to say something else there it's okay no it's fine and you would tell me stories and maybe you've mentioned on the podcast before of like opportunity like before you even started dating opportunity to go back and do the things that were part of your life in the drug life and you saying no to those so it really like made it clear to me like this guy's serious like he really is going to pursue God now he's already said no to so many things that were a part of that life so that really says to me like he's really going after God he's going to walk away from that life and he's really going to go for the things that really matter to talk about your journey up to that point though like Bible college right I know the story on other people don't like right how did God call you to go to Bible College being from Stanton Via West Virginia even though like going all the way across the country to Dallas Texas right like that's a big deal and I know in our marriage like I know how much your family means to you MH and so talk about that a little bit your call you Call of God to go do that so I really got saved like I guess it was in nth or 10th grade and then from there it was like dramatic for me like okay so I'm saved now as a teenager and so like this is going to be for real this is how it's going to be and I'm not going to steer away from this and so I was just committed to church and youth group I was a youth like student leader they put me in that role a little bit so then there was just a moment during a service one Sunday that I just felt the draw must been the holy spirit is pulling me toward the Altar and I remember sitting there with my my mentor cry saying like whatever it takes whatever God wants me to do I'm going to do it and that was like my moment from then on it was like yeah this is it like there's no other question and so I ended up going to emu in Harrisonburg and just wasn't like I was committed and I wanted to be in an atmosphere that was 100% committed to so being in Harrisonburg it still was like a a party school and being close to JMU like we still did all the things and I was like yeah this is not me like I need something more serious and at that time my youth leader he had come back from cfni Christ of the nation and so he was all telling me hey they're really serious like you're in worship all the time this is how it is and I was like huh well if that's more serious then that's what I'm going to do so I remember going to EMU for a semester and I actually remember sitting at the table with my mom and dad and saying hey guys I'm going to Texas and they're like what and I was like I'm I'm going to see an i and I'm going to go next semester and they're just like okay and then from there we just packed the car they drove down and then yeah drove down flew back I think helped me get settled and the rest this history yeah that's really good so what happened like in your heart like right so the call of God to be serious be all in and like that's the person that I've known in you right when you're committed to something you're in it and I know sometimes like right speaking to our marriage like your commitment didn't come easy like you didn't want nothing to do with me but like once you're in something you're in it and I've seen that in your life consistently it's not even a pretty it has been consistent in our entire relationship and So what had the Lord done in your life during that season while you were at bible college and then like getting from there to marrying a former addict and we're working in rehab together MH like did you see that at bible college so what was the Lord dealing with you at about Bible College like yeah I didn't want to come back like this honestly I was set to graduate in Texas and I had a pastor and his wife they had an extra room in their basement and I was going to stay and I was going to help them it was like I don't know a church plant or just a new church that was just getting started and so I was like Hey I'm going to stay with you and I'll help you with the church and then was really just praying about it was like I don't know maybe a month left at the semester I had to make the decision and I remember yeah God just was like yeah you're going home and I was like I'm not going home and it's like no you're going home and I was like okay I'll go home and so yeah I came home just started working and went back to my original church and started helping with the youth there I believe and then I met you and yeah was rooming with u my friend that's a three-hour night of worship right Jason Upton yes we did go there man I miss I need to go we need to go see Jason Upton that would be good like yeah that was such a good time so we met got married eventually right and then obviously used pastoring for a little bit but that was just like a blip on the radar it's interesting to try to figure out how God redirects paths right cuz I'm 38 now Pastor in a church and I thought I was ready to do this at 22 I realize now all these years later that like what was a delay was really God's mercy cuz I wasn't nowhere near mature or ready to be lead pastor of a church sure dealing people from 18 to 85 right or 8 months to 85 whatever that range is the whole story life and realizing like I hadn't been through some stuff but I hadn't been through enough to be able to have the depth and the context to speak to people at different stages of their life sure and that was one of the things like I always wanted to do early and I thought that like early on in our ministry we would do that and then we ended up trying to plant that church right and from there like TC women's ministry started to grow after we decided to step away from the church plant I guess I'm trying to figure out maybe I know maybe to give context for the audience degree Spirit fill Bible College Holy Ghost getting a hold of your life with a children's ministry to reab adult men and women struggling with substance abuse like right you used to call the TC van the drug bus all the slang terms and the education you've been getting oh yeah CU you didn't know any of that stuff no I didn't and that feel like educated very fast every conversation even then I remember the first time we talked about Mary Jane and I was like who you get a new student yeah oh those good times but what did that feel like stepping into drug and alcohol Ministry like cuz as well as I do that a lot of the people that are struggling with addiction have this mindset well you've never been there right so you how can you help me you don't understand what I'm going through right you stepped into that role and when we launched the women's you did it so well for so many years and there's still people that comment on your Facebook page now randomly will pop a memory up and share the impact that you had on their life and so how did you navigate that feeling called to do this thing and then now all of a sudden this other thing that was not a plan not on the radar anywhere right and being able to just step in that confidently and just be who God called you to be in the middle of it right I think it just comes down really to like obedience like I was going to do it with we were married now we're gonna walk in the thing together we're going to do ministry together and like that was your passion you already inting Challenge and leading when I met you right you stepped into that so it was just me like stepping into that with you and I think that was really easy for me because we were doing it together and there wasn't like I didn't have any doubt like I'm going to be obedient and to the Lord not to me yeah obedient to the Lord yeah and really yeah and walk with my husband yeah now that we're one and so it was a super new thing for me absolutely I didn't want us to get canceled funny but what really stuck with me a lot of times there two things like David Wilkerson wasn't an addict and so that's one of the things like he followed Holy Spirit and he was compassionate and he loved well so that really just said to me like it's possible and no matter what people would say or how they would look at me like dude you're in Teen Challenge that was started by someone who was just loving and followed the call of God and so it was much easier and then anything can happen like when you're just walking with the Holy Spirit and just being obedient so what would you say to somebody or piece of encouragement that like if somebody standing at across earth even now grappling with God calling them to something and there's no question that God's asking them to do this thing and be obedient but like I'm sure in the process of that there was there moments of self-doubt and adequacy feeling and all that coming up how did you I guess grapple with that and cope with it and be able to keep moving forward back to like just being obedient like and really staying in your word and focusing on the plan and that call that he has on you like if he's called you to it man he's going to what's that thing if he calls you to it he's going to get you through it had people said that before but really like that's surreal is it yeah that's getting chopped up so like stay focused on that like so many people are going to say so many things but when you stay confident on like God's called me here like he's obviously showed me that this is where I'm supposed to go like just stay confident in that and be obedient because he's going to he's just going to take you through well I can't say back then cuz we're back in it now but some of the craziness like walking through that and maybe for context it might make it a little more on easier for people to understand the fact that there were like you were pregnant we had kids like you were still nursing Lydia when we started the women's home like and we got a women's home in our basement living in the mountain and some of those seasons of life like just the craziness of all of it raising a family above the ladies yeah that was just wild and up the stairs not like above but like up the stairs three bedrooms in the basement but just up walking through that season raising a young family but yet having to trust in every step in obedience cuz that's where the Lord had called us in that season I know that wasn't easy and those first four years right before the kids got in school obviously there was more time to do ministry and I know that sounds crazy but we're homeschoolers right and so once we hit five like things Chang Dr dramatically for Chloe and then now with three girls in school but on some of the fun stories right praying for people and then getting cursed out by them yeah they wanted to fight me then 30 minutes later I'll never I hate you so much crying at the altar and then right up in the face ready to throw fist just a few minutes later and yeah does the times were for real yeah for sure so that was a fun season yeah for sure and everybody's listening now so are we ever doing it again another woman's home in the future maybe so who knows yeah maybe so I there's some dreams in that though I think one of the things you and I were pretty consistent on growing you like when we got married was having two and adopting two MH even though I fought you when we wanted to adopt right yeah we both came together with that idea which is cool yeah everything's easy till you do it right and sometimes like I man I yeah that's just that's enough I don't have to say anything else about that but that was part of our journey too so we go through this season like I come home from Teen Challenge you graduate Christ for the Nations we end up in rehab Ministry together for years while raising kids figuring all that out and then homeschooling and now foster care and adoption being a major part of our life I'm I'm not afraid to say it like you were much more passionate about foster care and adoption more than I was sure so where did that come from like you've had some dreams some God dreams along the way and what right like what did God how did he speak to you to do that and be so passionate about that well I've always been passionate about kids right so that's always been a focus for me but yeah like I would have these kid dreams at see and I one particular I know it's a god dreams that's what I call it like I found this there's a baby sitting in a shopping cart outside of Walmart and it's dark outside and the light is shining down on him and he's just sitting in the cart crying I think that was the very first dream that I had was like what is this like where is this going and so then yeah and I think I just continually like melted my heart I would see like commercials or advertisements or something like that and like as soon as it like started like I'll just start balling I'm like oh well something's happening here like God is like shifting me a little bit and so now it's really I'm really passionate about like his kids like having a family like they all deserve a family and being pulled out of hard situations do you think Emily was a fulfillment of that dream I don't know we never talked about that before it just dawned on me like hearing you say it and yeah the circumstances in which we got Emily mhm and her being abandoned and whatnot and then it's wild so the first time doing that we had our first two kids come home during the pandemic right we were out of Teen Challenge at this point and that's a whole another story and I've talked about that on previous episodes on but like the first two children coming in and that was a learning experience it was yes they were older and we had talked about keeping in our what is that called like the age range yeah in birth order it is yeah we excited first kids and we said yes well let's take let's go out of what we had said in out of the birth order and that was a little chaotic and of course that the country set shut down for covid and so five girls and nowhere to go yeah so to go to work oh yeah anything yes here we were and you emotions high this is the first placement the girls built good friendships after it took some time to get used to it but by the end they were good friends yeah that was a learning experience and then the part of like this is going to be 6 months and 18 months later like everything was just super slow yeah and I get it they don't know you try to guess the best you can Co slowed down things yeah and so but that was fun that was a year and a half and learned a lot we did and then we adjusted the age range I think the next time around and so I want to ask like you don't have to I can cut this out if you don't want to share it but like the experience of getting the call and going over the mountain and we've talked about this a bit and whatnot and like even then just speaking about this place of obedience right we say that a lot that's our statement and I don't know who we picked it up from I don't know if it was the ERS or the St Millers or somebody in our Circle used to use this statement this phrase all the time just saying the next yes just do it yeah and so we've co-opted that and it's like yeah we don't have to figure the whole plan out it's just the very next yes right and so that's been our life Youth Ministry Church plant that we walked away from because God was calling us to Teen Challenge and there are stories all along the way that what looked like failure to everybody on the outside was really God setting us up for the next thing that had we not been obedient to walk into something that like failed mhm I think sometimes and we don't think about that a lot that like God's not calling us to success always or at least in the worldly standards right he's calling us to obedience and like even going up and doing that church plant thing and then like feeling like well this was for nothing and we it felt like a failure and then from that place like we were there and that's where God began to grow SVTC like it was just straight up into the right yes over those next few years and we not said yes and been where we were I don't think that would have never happened and then even that the foster care pastoring now everything's just been a yes being back at Teen Challenge and some people would be like well you're a Rabbid squirrel you're all over the place but it's like I'm just trying to be obedient and sometimes I struggle with that because I think the more you grow and the more you mature the more open doors happen for you cuz there is like God directing the steps and then man wants to give opportunity the struggle sometimes I think is discernment and knowing like what is an Open Door just because like I've got some experience now right and what is actually a god door right and we' I think we've done all right figuring that out M but sometimes we were like yeah well not that it's been easy right we learned some things in the way taking the long path there sometimes but like so specifically though going over the mountain getting that call and not even knowing that we didn't know whether it was a placement whether it was an adoption like we had no information other than just come hold this baby I don't know you feel comfortable like bringing us in you went over first by yourself I believe right no we went together and then you started going back over and so I wasn't with you like on all those visits and so maybe I should have been because like I set myself up for a long lifelong commitment no I'm just kidding but yeah but just what was God doing it in your heart first it was like when we first committed it was just like have to be open to whatever however this goes right and oh my gosh it's a baby so whatever needs to happen and then when she said like it was a couple days and the baby hasn't been she hadn't been named what was her name baby girl right and so they just referred to her as that and so then a couple days later they like well I just waited for DSS to name her and they're like well would did you guys do it and I was like oh my gosh yeah and she of course like talk to Justin I'm like okay so but then I remember I'm staying in our bedroom and I was just thinking like because when you name it could just cause so much more like connection right and so we really had to ponder on that too but I remember being like Oh my gosh God before I think I talked to you I was like are we supposed to do this like should we name her what's going on here and that's remember him saying you're going to give her identity and like that's all I don't want to cry but like that was it and I'm like okay we're going to do this and then whatever it takes and at that time you're like well we don't know right let's just stick with fostering or we don't know about adoption and so I was like and so then whatever I had to put that back on God too I was like well whatever this needs to look like God I'm just going to be obedient just back to that like I'm just going to do what I need to do at this moment and so we were able to name her and then began and yeah so every other day I was going to UVA to see her well to sit there for a while because at first I couldn't hold her very much or at all it's hard to think back to all that but and really just got working there too because it's it's not an easy thing to sit in the niiki for hours like praying for all those babies and there's so many things going on and there's so many different issues going on and babies come and go because they've been released and yay and still sitting there and then other babies have been there for a long time and just seeing like everyone having to walk through their stuff and so it can be challenging and then just sitting there like watching the monitors like for hours yeah and so it can just be very wearing but it was a God thing that that when we first got there I don't know if you remember the story but like the nurse was like we've been waiting for cuz she hadn't had anybody to come and hold of her and any other people and like I totally believed that was God because that of all the nurses I saw so many of them like that one nurse who had been there since Emily had been born like I never saw her again and so I know like wow like God was working through things like from the very beginning yeah wow yeah that's that's crazy yeah I think about that and like I think God is like he's been faithful at times to send things in my life to Slow Me Down in a good way I don't mean as a knock like when I may be on a trajectory That's not healthy for myself and ultimately give me his best even though I had different plans sure and like I was hesitant like we didn't sign up to do adoption at first right it was like we were going to be short-term foster parents and everybody we talk to is like well I don't know how you could do that but we had spent 15 years in transient ministry right people comeing and going all the time right and so like I think we were equipped for at least that part of it it's never easy but through yeah and so I think that part was okay like we have a job we have a role to play and we're comfortable playing that role whatever that needs to look like right and so this was like oh like this is lifelong and but and I was in I no I KNew as soon as you named her I remember I was having that conversation but that's where I was struggling cuz it's like man we're a few months in we have no clue what her future is going to look like medical issues all that stuff that was just questioned up in the air I was wrestling with that it's like I this commitment could change drastically MH and I think in the back of my mind I'm on yeah that stuff terrifies me I don't do well around hospitals and sickness and he did pass out when I was giving birth both times but that part was tough but then like God like I remember pacing around the yard and God was dealing with you had made your commitment and I remember pacing around the yard just praying and pondering one evening and so that's when the Lord really shifted my heart and it wasn't still wasn't easy we had to go through some stuff and there was a lot of other stuff going on I think on the outside there's just causing pressure but like from there I think we were in and and then it was just wait and see right yeah did I tell the story right was I in after that or no yeah you were in after that or did I give you turmoil no I think you're were in yeah and so now like the faithfulness of the Lord two years later mhm like she's running she's healthy she's good yeah and not knowing any of that but like and she's so joyful like nothing's nothing's ever gone wrong yeah it's just life for her yeah she is pretty incredible and so that's been fun and then now pastoring and Teen Challenge and all of that but I don't know I don't want to go into all the nitty-gritty of what we're doing now but Sunday we get to do this again with other people on stage so I'm excited about that to chat with amber and Amanda I think it is for project belong are going to be on stage at church and we get to have some conversations about foster care and how they're making a difference and that's awesome I know you are passionate about this cuz you're going to be on stage and so yeah we'll ask a couple questions just to close out and have fun well not really have fun but really just put a bow on the whole thing sustained obedience to the Lord over the long term is not easy I guess it can be a muscle the more you use it the better and easier now I don't know that it ever gets easier and there's still wrestling almost that happens sure what's been key for you cuz the one thing I know about you Ashley is like maybe a lot of people don't a lot of people who aren't close like you are just consistent you just are who you are no matter where we go opportunities don't change that what I'm saying like there's like we've got to do some cool stuff we've we've been in some fun places but like no matter where the Lord puts us you're just who you are you're just consistent that's a good thing right but like in that you have this ability to just be obedient to the Lord and what he's asking out of you and so what has been like Bible College leaving home all this journey of life and every step along yes Lord how do you keep your heart tender and I guess maybe even your mind in your spirit open to be able to hear from the Lord and know and be able to just say yes consistently as you have like I don't know if you're ever really comfortable with it because you just never know like some yeses I'm sure they been like really like I really have to do that but then like knowing that gosh she's a good father and so really keeping that in the back of your mind like or really the front of your mind that he wants all good things for me even if I don't like it or it's different or there's a change like in the end it's for my good and he doesn't waste anything like I remember when someone said that to me like it's forever stuck with me he doesn't waste anything that happens to so he turns all things around for the good and so I don't know if I've really ever doubted because if he gosh if he's got the big picture and this is the way he's pointing me then like why not yeah yeah that's good then yeah that's awesome does that make sense it does absolutely I do want to speak though one more thing about these Dreams and the funny part about these God dreams and now like I don't know I never dreamed a lot when we first got married but now like I'm getting them randomly it's been happening recently but like I don't want to talk about my dreams in this moment I want to talk about yours and the dream on the mountain and like do you remember that I do yeah do you want to tell story no please it's so good I'll tell my part yeah cuz I think you remember more than I do no you remember I remember what happened after right we don't have to go into all that I don't yeah so I dreamed that like something was being covered up yeah on the mountain and God is on it man and so like that was one thing that we were always like well something's going on like should we go investigate and like no God was so faithful all the time like if there's something going on like crazy then he's going to reveal it right that was like he was so faithful with that and so turned up in my dream I was like well this is what I dreamed this is interesting let's go check it out and for sure or sure enough where it was in my dream is when we found what was being exposed and so like well you called me and told me about the dream oh did I see I don't even remember all those details if you had the dream you told me about it and I'm like well I'll just go do a room search and so I went and sure enough it was exactly what you dream and that's crazy like it's not crazy because God speaks still and he speaks through dreams and PR all kinds of different things he has ways of speaking but I have never doubted like your ability to hear the Lord and dream and I think that was one of those things where like God had been faithful like man sometimes too like we're I think it's that season that gave me so much patience like even though I like to pursue things like in regards to if I'm leading something and things are happening and motives aren't right and people have impure motives or doing things behind the scenes like ultimately like God will fight my battles he'll fight our battles and sometimes I think we end up causing more chaos in our relationships and conflict in our life because we're trying to uncover things and expose things yes there is a responsibility as Leaders to correct but like if God uncovers something mhm like his correction is going to be much better than my correction will ever be sure and like I we realize that it Teen Challenge now don't get me wrong we did a lot of Correction at Teen Challenge as well without dreams but right when it was needed yeah but like those moments undeniable right like the Lord showing up and speaking and exposing something that could have caused much more damage in the long term and I think I'm I'm I'm so grateful for the faithfulness of the Lord in that so as we close out what's the thing that annoys you about me the most annoys you about me okay yeah so we are so different right you're a Visionary you're like on the go you jump things jump from one thing to the other and as you said I like keep it going I like the details and just a lot different so I guess I've actually learn that it's actually a blessing most of the time like here's an instance like in homeschooling you've gotten really get much better at this but there'll be days like we're just working especially toward the end of the year because you have to get things done so you can do the testing and all that stuff but like I'll be on track and I'm focused and the girls are focused and then in the middle you like hop in the door and you're like let's go for ice cream and I'm like are you kidding me and I remember and at the be very beginning like in our early days I was like are you serious like do you see my schedule here do you see what's going on we have things to do but I've learned that was like healthy most of the time because it would take some of the stress off it would break up our day we had the freedom to do that and then like the girls super enjoyed it like yes and it was such a brain break that we actually really needed it was annoying for a second but then and so it's turned out to be a blessing most of the time but sometimes it can be irritating just because we are so different yeah that's fun mhm do you want to hear mine yeah sure no I'm just kidding whatever no yeah no I think that's cool though I think that's the beauty of like God bringing us together in the two different worlds that we came from and then like the difference in personalities like just walking alongside of each other and you having dreams me having dreams but then like even on even at TC like I've told you this privately but none of that happens without you like and cuz I do know that I like I live in the clouds and you've always been the steady in the balance like you need both right and I think that's the beauty though sometimes we end up trying to be what we're not a lot of people make that mistake and it's like well I've got to be better at this thing and yes there's personal development there's growth but sure God created all of us uniquely and I think that's the beauty of even the five-fold ministry right that like not everybody's called to do the same thing and when the body works together and functions and that's what marriage is Right Dave Ramsey I remember I'm saying all the time if you marry somebody just like you one of you is unnecessary right and I'm grateful that neither of us is necessary right so that's always good to know that and know that there's that balance and just see what the Lord does next and so I'm excited though cuz this was just a get to know you session and yes yeah how was it was fine it was better than I thought so try to get together and talk a little bit more and so just I wanted to get a chance to introduce people on the podcast to the person behind the scenes and man we were listening into a sermon yesterday about that wrecked my world and I won't go into the details on that today but just knowing god created you to be even though you've been on stages before like that's not where you're running you're not running to that and like the person you are steady and constant and consistent and faithful in whatever you do behind the scenes like I value and appreciate that and so I think for people to that are watching even on YouTube Facebook all the places that we put this like I'm on my face is out there all the time right and even Ministry life and Teen Challenge I was the guy with the mic doing all of that but like I'm very aware that without you I'm a hot jumbled mess and so I'm excited about that and being able to talk a little bit more thank you guys for watching and I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Ashley and I we're going to be trying to do these every two weeks so if you have any questions comments or any topics that You' like us to dive into going forward just as we engage in conversation please leave those below also please don't forget to hit the like button share the video subscribe to the channel if you're not already thank you for tuning in God bless you guys we'll see you soon