Healing from Trauma as a Christian: Chipo Mathis

Chapo you went through that so that you can be a voice a true an authentic voice yeah wow to somebody who is going through that in the future I'm like God did we really have to go through that but that's how because we are human and we are Fallen we are all sinners yeah it's only through those lessons that we can build the muscle and the fortitude to be able to be a support yeah wow to somebody else going through that to say just pray there's no transformation there the transformation comes through doing something about that trauma well I'm excited to sit down and chat and we been doing these podcasts for a while now talking about the concept of addiction and helping people rebuild their lives after addiction and so cha I thank you for coming on and maybe just before we jump into our conversation if you want to give a few a little bit of intro how we know each other I know we go to church together right but nobody else knows that and so just give a little intro and then we'll jump into our topic oh okay yeah my name is Cho Mattis I moved to Winchester December of 2021 and started working at Valley and was working with I still work with Lindsay and she invited me to church here nice she I came once and then didn't come back again then I came for the women's conference and I I that was it I kept coming and it has become a my Village nice and you're my shepherd and we're here yeah absolutely and we're here living life and just helping each other to be the kingdom ambassadors that God wants us to be yeah I love your heart for people and your heart for prayer you've really done a great job encouraging the church to go deeper in prayer and adding some elements that we were missing as a church and came in and brought that with you to the church and it's been phenomenal now one of the things we've talked about a little bit like you're working on your doctorate while working full-time and like I remember some conversations we had you caught me in the hallway went I think I'm going to go get my doctorate y and I was like cool I was like what are you going to do with it she's like I don't know the Lord just said to do it yeah and tell me a little bit about that's it that's a great story yeah I dealt with lived with unresolved trauma for a very long time and I didn't even know it until after my divorce then I hit rock bottom then a friend of mine literally U kicked me into a therapist office who was a Christian therapist and worked with me and then started to realize and unpack all that anger which contributed to my divorce and during the before the divorce I was pointing fingers I wanted to scratch my ex-husband's face because pointing fingers thinking he did something wrong but that helped me to realize that I came into the marriage with a lot of burgage that was unresolved and it presented a lot of challenges yeah and led to played a lot from my part leading to the divorce good Lessons Learned there yeah and during that as I was Journal journaling through my therapy it ended up being a book that was published but I contined to sense this I can't say that I heard the voice of God telling me this but I've always had this sense that want to be a counselor okay yeah and during that period then it became so strong that I need to be sitting alongside other women other young especially young women who might be going through the same thing that I went through and be a support to help them to give them that support because a lesson one of the biggest lessons that I learned that I did not like to learn is that Chapo you went through that so that you can be a voice a true an authentic voice yeah wow to somebody who is going through that in the future I'm like God did we really have to go through that but that's how because we are human and we are Fallen we are all sinners yeah it's only through those lessons that we can build the muscle and the fortitude to be able to be a support yeah wow to somebody else going through that yeah that's really good just like if you have a gard and you have to prune some of those things how do you prune your cutting is painful so that's how it is even in our lives you the only way you can help sometimes is to learn the lesson than you can give somebody else yeah because you can only give what you have in your heart and I had a lot of anger a lot of resentment for a very long time yeah and that's what colored the way that I presented myself in the world at work as a single parent so God had to trim and to prune that yeah and to be able to prune that I had to go through the marriage go through that divorce the divorce is one of the best things that ever happened to my life because it created an occasion for me to get on my knees yeah wow and say God if you don't fix this yeah I'm done yeah that's powerful perspective like now right what did it take to get to that place right to where you have that perspective of those experiences because looking in the past right hindsight being what it is 2020 but I know that perspective didn't come overnight no and yeah and we say hindsight is 2020 yeah sometimes it goes down because it's it's it's a daily Commitment a daily walk it's a journey not an event right like you're saying it's a process when I was working with a therapist I remember the first time I think I've shared this with you within a few minutes she was asking me you have unresolved trauma and I'm thinking what's wrong with this woman I'm here because I'm dealing with my divorce what trauma is she talking about she worked with me until I realized that and we worked through it for several months and I'm like okay now I'm good yeah until yeah triggers come reminders come and the enemy is not sitting out there and just watching reclaim your true identity in Christ right he throw curveballs triggers and you go back but the healing process the journey that you described is God knows what we can handle yeah at any given time so one of the visions that it gave me when I was going through that trauma is that I've always had you in the palm of my hand wow and I remember getting a vision of the first time that I experienced that trauma a long time ago and I'm like God I even then I heard you in the palm of yeah my hand but the healing is we heal at a certain level and then something else happens we triggered that's an occasion to heal even deeper yeah now when you mentioned you were going through therapy right and dealing with some of the stuff the therapist was help and you work through some of this stuff but then you said I was good until did you reimmerse yourself in therapy or were you in therapy the whole time and or you taking a break or what did that look like the first time that it happened I was still in therapy and I remember calling her thinking it's not working yeah it's not working because how come I'm still feeling this way I felt like last week I was good but now I'm still coming to see you every week and this is happening and I'm thankful that I had a lot of friends who were praying me through yeah and helping me to just be brave yeah enough to say okay I'll come for one more session right I'll come for one more session not I'm going to come for the next year just one session at a time going back and after I had stopped going then the triggers even were even more I remember even just hearing my ex-husband's name would throw me off yeah and that's why it is really important to unpack and know what triggers you right so that you can begin to prepare yeah even before it happens so that when you see it coming you are able to to mitigate it otherwise you end up going back yeah for me I'll end up working like 16 hours a day or just overworking and isolating myself yeah that's good I was about to ask what did that look like going back for you right like you mentioned you made a statement at the beginning like I'm just here to deal with my divorce right and I'm in therapy this that's why I'm here I don't want to talk about trauma I don't want to talk about all this other stuff like this is what I'm here for yeah and you and I were talking the context of this conversation like working with Teen Challenge yes I'm just here to get off drugs mhm and a lot of times it's like sometimes the family's even struggle it's like well if they could just stop you using yes you mentioned that before like you just got to stop like and it's like no there's some layers underneath of that and for you from what I'm hearing is that when the triggers would happen You' bury yourself in work yep to escape the pain yes and so how did you get to a point where you were able to start recognizing those triggers and then finding healthy Outlets that weren't burying yourself in work or whatnot what is that process was that something you work through that the you work through alone the therapist helped you unpack and get some healthy coping mechanisms yeah it's a combination because like we talking about this earlier to say addictions looks look different for different people and the path that the addiction goes it depends on the context are you in an environment that gives you an opportunity to this way or that way right if drugs are available or easy access that becomes your Escape right if it is work that becomes your Escape yeah if it is whatever it is it becomes your escape to numb the pain yeah because what happens when you when you go through a traumatic event physiologically we were created in a way that I'll give an example if you living our lives and we are experiencing good things those memories are stored nicely put together in shelves in our neurologically so that we can recall those stories and relieve those but if you experience something that is traumatic whether it's sexual abuse whether it's physical abuse whatever it looks like for you when that trauma happens because it's a shock to the body but God created us in such a way that we end up the way that memory is stored it is shattered though it's shattered into different small pieces so that we can be able to handle it all right wow yeah because it when you experience something traumatic a lot of things happen in your brain neurologically physiologically hormones are being produced the FL or fight it's because something is happening in your body yeah for a traumatic event those memories are shuted into small pieces and stored in different places wow okay so it's not like one whole story in that shelf in your in the brain it's little pieces so when you're triggered it is because just a little piece one of those pieces of that memory comes back whether the event happened last week or 20 years ago only that piece of memory but it comes back with all the feelings and all that pain like it happening now that's the trigger yeah that's wow so you're living 20 years ago into now because you smelled something that triggered that memory yeah but because it's just a little piece it is so painful and a shock again so we have to numb yeah so for me it was going to work or I ended up being very aggressive and a very angry that was my outlet overworking or just being angry or go running yeah and people end up numbing in different ways so when you go and numb okay you feel better like you have numbed okay now I feel better it does not necessarily mean that it's gone away part of therapy is why it the journey is because it takes time to take all those little pieces of that memory stored in different places to put them back together so that they're in the right perspective and nicely stored yeah that's such a good description yeah oh my goodness so that's the trigger yeah that's that's really good and so let's let's dive a little bit into individuals that are dealing with addiction and it's interesting I went through this whole journey I went through my addiction Journey went to Teen Challenge which is a phenomenal program found a relationship with Christ yes and but yet I didn't go to therapy for the first time until like until 2020 and I remember the therapist unpacking some stuff that I had just never dealt with yeah and you're acknowledging some of those things and realizing some of my proclivities and why I took the way I TI and some of the some even the escapes that weren't weren't weren't methamphetamines but like you mentioned addiction is so broad it's like it was accept it wasn't acceptable as a rehab director to do mess but it was certainly acceptable to go disappear into my house and watch Netflix and just Escape for the day instead of facing what I was facing and and so I wonder how many people are walking through this addiction journey and there's no question that addiction is a fruit of a deeper issues like it's just that's just common no matter what M but what role specifically would you say trauma plays in pushing people toward addiction what is that connection there the connection many people who end up going end up being addicted to substances or whatever that addiction is because that's an escape yeah that's to deal with this issue to numb it so that I don't feel that pain so that I don't don't almost like forget about it didn't happen and so you've heard it say that time heals time on its own does not heal right it does not heal what heals is dealing with it but dealing with that trauma is so painful right that you end up that's why people end up being addicted to substances is to take care of the pain you don't feel anything that's right yeah it's to deal with the pain yeah and some addictions are a labored is not acceptable yeah but some addictions are societally labored is acceptable like if somebody's overworking it's like almost like a BGE of Honor yeah I can remember back to using math my struggle it was my identity I didn't feel good enough I didn't feel confident enough and when I would take a hit of math I could get so like I was just it was a super power until it wasn't yes right and so for me it was dealing with that identity and not feeling I wasn't the guy that made the sports teams even though I tried didn't have the best grades in school and so I could get like you're realizing that like man I that was a fix it was a resolve for the issues that I hadn't dealt with and even seeing some of that and so let's say you're the dangers right of not dealing with trauma so you a lot of the people that are listening maybe are Christian discipleship folks either have been through a Teen Challenge program or they have some connection through discipleship Ministry and one of the things I think we covered here in the church when we did the series on Mental Health it's like it's therapy and prayer yes it's not either or right and sometimes in the Christian circles like we can push back on therapy and dealing with some of this deeper trauma it's like well let's just pray it all away and let's just hope that it gets better what are some of the dangers of that for individuals like it just walking around with this unresolved trauma and hurt yeah and the danger of just separating them to say just pray there's no transformation there the transformation comes through doing something about that trauma yeah the transformation comes through yes through prayer but yes I pray right now but God gives us resources yeah to go and unpack that when you said a few minutes ago your friends were praying you went back to therapy yeah that's so good yeah so prayer is like a catalyst yeah to help us to do something about it that's so good to do something about it and prayer G it's almost like it's a gate that opens us to receive yeah the power that we don't have to deal with it yeah through holy spirit gives us the power but God is not going to push us into doing anything he not going to twist that into doing anything because how we don't learn from that right there's no transformation we end up just holding onto that false identity yeah that has to be broken down yeah you have to really accept Christ as your personal savior yeah and sit there and really receive it yeah and let him work in you yeah that's so while you're praying yeah there's that work inner work happening it's like yeah that's very good yeah I and I think that's that's part of where prayers become almost like it's not it's i a quote went up on our Facebook page social media folks put it up and it said when you're praying don't seek answers seek God yes you may not always find answers but you'll always find Jesus and I think a lot of times that's where prayer is Miss we're going looking for the answer yeah and like Ephesians says what is it Ephesians 3:20 exceedingly abundantly above all we could ask or Imagine by the power that works within you with the it's in there already and it's so it's really more about building that relation ship but then taking advantage of practical resources that are at our frame tips and so trauma specifically though like I we didn't start talking about this in our home and I didn't let me rephrase that I knew there was a route for addictions obviously I didn't start putting language to trauma until we went through our foster care training and they really educated us and brought Ashley and I up on learning a lot of that and so what would you say to somebody who's like I don't or let me rephrase that question like I don't I wasn't in an abusive household what I'm saying or I don't have any what some would say are significant and I put air quotes on that cuz all trauma is trauma but maybe somebody's like what are some of the myths around like yeah this doesn't really affect me and yeah some of the MS are like if you look at maybe siblings four siblings they grow up in the same household there's no physical abuse from the parents there's no any other abuse that's coming from the parent but one event might happen maybe an uncle or whoever comes and visits and maybe says something that triggers somebody and traumatizes them or you're involved in an accident as a family some are more resilient and can deal with it and store that memory differently and one person is traumatized by it right and so it's like well I was there it wasn't that bad exactly and sometimes we might be pointing what's wrong with you and even in fam is like we grew up together I come from a very big family if we are all in this room and we started talking about certain issues you'll be like wait I thought you were from the same family yes we are but each one of us are uniquely created M with different personalities with different gifts with different resources that we have within us for a reason that God has put us on this Earth so how I respond to anything is different from how my sister or my brother will respond to it so whether it's phys it doesn't have to be physical abuse it could be an event or it could be you as a family no issues in a family and you're all watching an accident or the shootings on TV right well yeah that can traumatize somebody just like they were there yeah we had a guy on the podcast a while ago he was the he was a respiratory therapist and he served in the ER during the first community acquired Co patient and he was one of the guys that served them and he watched all this death and destruction during all of that and he's now he's in PTSD support groups he's dealing with that stuff now but he went through a spiral in a battle with addiction yes on the other side of dealing with that those traumatic experiences and it's it's amazing you and I were having a brief conversation the other day about secondary trauma yeah and how like we don't even necess like just inter interacting and stuff and dealing with that and so I guess the question would be like how do we I don't know can you guard yourself against trauma like like what is what does that look like in regards to like how do I ensure that I'm like in a healthy space right that I'm not being impacted or at least if I am impacted I'm recognizing it and dealing with it do you understand what I'm asking yeah what I'm hearing and sometimes I used to think maybe there like a formula where now that I know that I went through that and I'm healing how can I insulate myself from experiencing that ever again yeah as long as we are on this side of Eternity right we cannot completely insulate ourselves that's good we can't completely insulate ourselves that's why being in community is really important having people who really know you but the first thing is just knowing who you are in Christ knowing your identity to the point where if somebody came here and said oh chipo you're 7t tall I'm not right so knowing who you are knowing the resources that you have and knowing and embracing it like really embracing it not knowing off yeah but knowing because that's what helps me even now I get triggered sometimes but then the time between being triggered and coming back gets shorter and shorter that's phenomenal yeah that's good it gets shorter and shorter because I'm learning who I am in Christ yeah and really learning to recognize to say when the enemy tries to remind me that oh you're divorced you're a single parent and you all this that's not good yeah I can say no I'm not yeah because I know who I am so what part would you say that cuz you're you share your story you've written a book and you're you're going out more to speak like what part has telling your story helped in keeping I guess Victory right over those lies what part has that played in that journey I when I'm like even coaching somebody or even counseling someone that helps me it's like I'm I'm helping them but I'm also helping myself yeah in a way when scripture says we conquered by the by our testimony as we are sharing it actually strengthens me because helping somebody is therapy yeah it is therapy because it's almost like a reminder as well for myself to say yes remember what God did yeah he still doing it but at the same time knowing that how he did it then is not the same way that he's going to help you now it's not the same way that is going to help this person that you're talking to or helping yeah but just look at the concept of who God is yeah that's really teach that who is Christ who is God yeah and who are you in Christ what resources is God giving us in your situation in my situation because we are all different yeah and that takes time so it needs a lot of Grace a lot of patience yeah and not saying pray it off or just get over it time more heill no Sitting In God's Presence being saturated by his grace yeah so healing that's so good yeah that process I think the sharing even before I felt like I was completely free mhm like even I didn't feel it all the way but starting to speak that out and start to talk into the future me and that's where I was at but I think even now it's like I still share the story as if it happened yesterday mhm because it's still that real and I've never wanted to lose that memory like that like man God did a miracle for me that I could never do for myself yeah and just consistently remembering that and we in the recovery world we celebrate our serber birthdays every year and it's it's my salvation date for me it's the same day I got saved was the day that I stopped using but like that's just a reminder constantly of the positive that happened not the worst parts of my story and at one point I used to think why can't I just forget it ever happened yeah there's a reason for that it is because that's where that's who what made me to be the person that I am today yeah so I have to go back and say oh wow look at it in the right perspective that's what God did yeah take those lessons and apply them to my life today and apply them as I'm sharing with somebody else yeah that's good so we heal we forgive we reconcile yeah but we don't we cannot forget but we will have to remember from a different perspective because now our identity is different when my identity was an angry woman when I remembered I became even more angrier yeah but as a woman who was very angry who was still in that space I can go back and say no that's not who I am that's was my that was my identity that somebody else gave me and I embraced it but now I am a woman of God who experienced that because somebody who is also a sinner had their own issues and abused me that's on them and I pray for them to say I hope wherever they are God I hope you are healing them yeah you giving them Grace and showing them that's not okay yeah that journey of walking through that and talking about the abuse and whatnot like hate like the journey to getting out of that yeah that's a tough journey I can't even imagine and what did that what did that look like do you mind going into that like how you ended up being able to walk away or pull back from that and pull yourself into a safe situ a yeah for decades I felt dirty because that's the only way because when the first time that it happened the first time that U my uncle abused me I told my dad and he responded the best way that he knew like I said earlier you can only give what you have and nothing else yeah and we pushed it under the carpet I couldn't talk about it h yeah anymore but it continued to happen so I blamed myself it became my identity you are not worth anything that's why you have to go through this pain yeah wow many times I tried even to commit suicide because why should I continue and blaming God if is real why would you allow this to happen to a child yeah but through therapy the therapist helped me to put all those things in perspective to say it's not that's not your identity that's not who you are first let's work on that who are you are a child of God yeah God loves you and he promises that everything that happens he works to works it out together for my good yeah he has a lot of Grace for me and everybody else so I had accept that and walk into my identity in Christ first receive God's grace God's forgiveness even for thinking that he was just a bully and he didn't love me but embracing his love and receiving it yeah after that was the point where I could be able to go back and even not physically to go and talk to the uncle who abused me but just to release them and to forgive and to say that's not who I am yeah yes you did that to a child one of I worked with a life coach as well and she helped me this exercise that she did for me is that we went into a long hallway because I was sobbing like a little girl because of the pain that I was going through and she said okay let's walk it was a very long herway and she was like who are you and I said what do you mean I'm I'm cheap he said you're a child of God you're a woman of God and I said of course I know that and she said but there's a little girl who still in pain and I said I don't want to be there and she said Okay metaphorically we're going to leave that little girl here we're going to pray for her we're going to leave her right here and when we walk back we continue to pray for her yeah wow and we walked back slowly into the room and sat down yeah it for me personally that exercise helped me to separate that pain because like I said you don't forget yeah it's still there but you now it's a I look at it in a different perspective that happened to that little girl yeah not because she was unworthy not because the uncle just was up to just doing that yeah because we are all born in a world of sin and if we don't deal with that then we're going to hurt somebody else yeah so there's that girl but God has given me Grace and I receive it yeah that's very good I receive it that and God has forgiven my sins yeah God has reminded me who I am in him yeah that's so good and he has me in the palm of his hand yeah I heard a lot of people but he has even forgiven me for that yeah and I remember talking to my son asking for forgiveness for him because I hurt him because I was a very angry mother and that was a very painful healing process for me and for him yeah I heard it's part of the healing it's all part of yeah I heard Tim Moross in the basement he has podcast on YouTube it's blown up but he was sharing a similar story about his journey and realizing and he have you seen the movie with Russell Crow the Beautiful Mind and he shared the story about how like during the movie the voices that were there as he got on the other side and got healed the voices were still in the room but they were just tucked away in the corner yeah he wasn't taking direction from them anymore and he shared that illustration and I had the same reaction it just blew my mind like that's what it is like that's still there it's part of our past and our history but we don't take our cues no from it any longer there's a voice that's much louder yeah that's so good because that when you're experiencing trauma the reason why people end up in addiction is to num those voices that are telling us you're not good enough you need to you're not worthy yeah those voices are so loud and want to just shut them up yeah and people end up in drug addiction to numb those voices yeah but the healing part of the healing process is the world is loud with or without addiction right it's very loud especially now just go on Instagram or Facebook yeah that Spirit of comparison those voices are so loud yeah but if you have the voice that is louder as God yeah so let's say I have White Knuckle my way through sobriety right willpower fought through it not using today and like I not dealt with anything else yeah just the physical substance at that point what are some steps to identify like of course I know we both agree like therapy is a great place to start but for somebody who maybe isn't willing to take that leap yet and is trying to like determine like I'm I'm holding on right now but I don't know how long this is going to last what would some advice be and it's a broad question but yeah and it's a very good question because we like I said we are all created uniquely each of us are different and our Journeys are different yeah for a reason because and we can learn from each other there are some people that are just not met for therapy right for somebody like that I would say learn what are your triggers because just stopping to use the drug is not enough yeah you have to replace because you're using because you're numbing you're feeling a void that's that's that's inside until you feel that void with something else yeah you're going to end up with maybe a different addiction yeah is a CS or which one of the authors talks about the god-shaped hole and it's like I tried to put everything else in that hole and nothing else fit it and so we talked about like you went through some of the steps on like support network and all of that and so I'm assuming we address triggers and we recognize them and so even if therapy is not the outlet we're still looking we're still getting a feel for what our triggers are you have to know what your triggers are and the way that you identify your triggers there are certain situations where you're like why did I just respond like that yeah or why did I react like that think about those things and why that could be your trigger yeah that's true it could be a smell you smell something and it just make you re react in a unusual way yeah identify those things and think about them talk to somebody a friend in say what do you think about this yeah once you learn those you can be able to mitigate them before they happen it's helping you to understand yourself yeah it's it's odd I joke about it a lot now but like I don't do many hospital visits even as a pastor MH I overdid it with meth one time MH I went into the hospital a dude dropped me off of the front door and I ended up in the ER and I went through this whole experience they were trying to take the IV the nurse made a mistake and there's blood squirting everywhere and like I'm I'm freaking out cuz I'm I'm G I'm out of my mind on meth at this point already and they gave me something to knock me out and I don't that was the last thing I remember even now almost 20 years later yeah if I'm in an ER and they're trying to get I get lightheaded yeah and it physically shows up exactly and I've always wondered like cuz I had a friend that got sick and was in the hospital pretty significant and I went in to see him and I almost blacked out in the other room and it happens every single time I go to the ER yeah and I tell the doctors now I've gotten smart like hey like when my second child was born the first one I almost passed out when chlo was born the second one and it wasn't even the birth it was the epidural the needle the need there's just a stay with needles and it's it's wild how that shows up yeah and I know that's not necessarily talking about going to get again but just that experience that trigger and it shows up every single time it's it's so interesting yeah to you're saying yeah and now even you going in a hospital to tell somebody or go with somebody yeah because hey can you go with me I need to go and see my loved one they're in the hospital but this is what happens when I'm there I need some moral support yeah the second time I walked out of the room and the nurse was like I'm like can you give me an orange juice and it's like of course Ashley gave me a hard time afterwards I'm like you're you're the one giving birth and I'm here drinking orange juice and yeah but but she was like the nurse said something to me after her she was like thank you for walking out yeah I said yeah I know better and I don't want your attention on me it needs to be exactly and so that proc same concept yeah that process then of identifying being able to call on a friend and it's just I would assume just consistently that over a period of time which allows us to build a little bit more resilience exactly and we need Community yeah because the isolation if you don't have one or two people that you trust to walk you through those things or to bounce off what you're feeling what you think are your triggers to talk to them about you don't talk to them let them support you need Community because if without that community then those negative voices become louder you end up isolating yourself and then that becomes the devil's Workshop yeah that's that's really good M yeah now I think we cover my L sorry I can edit this out pause in for a second yeah so in closing I think maybe and know we may have covered this already but it's all right on we talk about like the misconceptions right around and I think that's one of the parts that like I I think even having going into this topic is like there is a link with trauma and addiction and there's there's no question and breaking down some of those misconceptions and we did talk about that a little bit earlier but like Cho if you had any like parting words for let's just say the audience that we're talking to is on yeah I want to speak to the families for a second that are walking with their loved ones through this journey and like man but I was a good parent I provided and how did they become an addict like how did they end up in this spot like I don't know that I caused trauma what I'm saying and speaking to that situation do you have any words of words of encouragement or Direction yeah family members especially parents of children that end up in addiction yeah that can be a very painful experience because it's on not only the person who is using who is addicted that's affected yeah especially those closest around because they are walking that journey of addiction as well yeah and the toughest part is supporting without enabling that can be a very a very thin line there you have to continue supporting almost like separating the behavior from your child right yeah talking to your child and not the behavior and not the addiction yeah to say you are a man of God yeah you are a woman of God and speaking to them for who they were created to be supporting them for who they were created to be yeah that's the hardest part because you have to continue to support them and they will reject it yes they will reject it and then reject it some more but as parents just as the person who's directly affected we have to be brave enough have a lot of Grace yeah have a lot of patience to continue be cons because that consistency in staying and addressing them for who they were created to be yeah consistently no matter how hard it is because it will be hard and is a journey consistently and seeking God's guidance and receiving his grace yeah and his patience so that you can give it to them yeah consistently spiritually separating the behavior the addiction from this child of mine yeah that's really good and addressing this child of mine yeah that's such a difficult battle to walk through and I never realized what my parents walked through until I got on the phone with parents of those trying to get help and the Lord gave me a you into what people walk through and I think specifically in this area of drama like like I appreciate early on that you said like again air quotes it doesn't have to be what we would label as a big deal like whether it be physical abuse or whatever that might be like we can pick up trauma through vicarious yeah and that part I think was eye openening for me and I think it would be to many of the audience as well cuz it's like I'm I don't know that I've been traumatized it's like there's something there especially if you're coping with it like there is something driving that and that's where we we talk a lot about I love the 12 seers we do a fearless self-inventory and we start going deep and trying to figure out what it is that's driving this stuff why and get to the why be brave enough and bold enough to address it and that stuff is work and yeah but it's so worth it like there's a whole and healed person on the other side of that and God already sees us that way already the blood that's the beauty of this relationship with the lord it's it's so phenomenal yeah and so yeah it's it's it's only by God's grace that we are s sitting here yeah it's only by God's grace that any parent that has a child that's going through it right now by God's grace you continue to be brave to support your child Yeah by God's grace you continue to fight if you're going through an addiction by God's grace to be brave enough because there's no two ways about it's a hard journey yeah with a lot of ups and downs but if you consistently stay on that journey of healing yeah those ups and downs become smoother they are not as stiff as they can be they become smooth smoother yeah that's really good smoother and the time that you triggered to go or even relapse becomes shorter and shorter only if you're consistent yeah walk through the pain cuz you're not alone time does not heal God heals and he puts people around us to support us they therapists friends parents pastors the church yeah people around us don't bottle it don't hide yeah that's our what voice are you listening what voice is loudest yeah if any voice is telling you're not worth it you need to die you don't belong long those are voices from that you should not even be listening to yeah but you have to replace them from a louder voice that comes from he who created you yeah that's so good it's somebody who is loved who has a purpose yeah that voice eventually becomes louder yeah that's really good I used to ask the question to close out if you could change one thing from your past what would it be and I stopped asking that question and I started asking it differently and I want to ask you a question in closing mhm if you could hop in a time machine MH and tell Chapo right at the beginning of her therapy Journey MH something that Chapo today knows mhm and so not what would you change but what would Chapo today yeah tell Chapo from back then having all of your wisdom all of your experience and all the stuff that you've walked through yeah like when you're just getting started on this journey of healing what piece of advice would you give her I would say three things that God has you in the palm of his hand it doesn't matter what you're going through Cho God has you in the palm of his hands which means you might fall which means you will stumble which means you will mess up which means I you will hurt other people but God H you in the palm of your hand stay the course hold on to him he is the source of everything that you need to walk through whatever you walk through yeah you are okay not you're going to be okay you are okay yeah focus on that I am okay not because I am all that but because God has me in the palm of his hand focus on that yeah focus on that's so good that you are okay not you're broken not you don't you're not worth anything focus on that and I used to pray that God just take this pain away I don't pray that anymore either yeah my prayer now is that if I'm going through a difficult time is God gave me the fortitude open my eyes and ears to see and hear the lessons that I need to learn from this yeah however long it's going to take yeah I don't like it and I'm honest when I'm talking to God about that right I it doesn't feel good I don't like it God I don't like it yeah but I know that your promises are true yeah we're going to go through we're not going to sit in here but as I walk through this desert this Valley make a way and help me to see that way help me to learn what I need to learn from this yeah and the author of Hebrews right he said on we have a high priest that has been tested in all points such as we have but like that in that promise that he endured and has been tested and mentally tried and sweat come like drops of blood it's like knowing that our savior empath IES and sympathizes with our pain and I more than we know yeah I heard I Heard a preacher talking about that the other day was talking about when on you Jesus cut the Peter cut the ear off and you Jesus's response is that it has been appointed that I must suffer and like that part is like facing that reality that's been something I've been on a lot in the scripture is like understanding and having a healthy biblical view of suffering and hardship yes and cuz I think we want to skip over that part of life all of us do and none of us enjoy it but there's a growing there's a maturing that comes in that and they always say all the leadership classes I've learned so much more from my failures and my missteps and my mistakes that I've learned from my successes and one of these days I pray that I'm going to be able to flip that and that I'm going to learn in the good times but well CH thank you so much for talking and getting on here and chatting thank you for having me yeah and if anybody can connect with you online how should they do that whether on Facebook or Instagram even my YouTube is Chapo ma perfect and I will drop the link Down Below in the description and thank you guys for coming on and enjoying this conversation I hope it was helpful please look cheap up she's traveling and speaking and and close to getting her doctorate which I am hyper impressed cuz I it's it's incredible and on for rebuilding life after addiction again thank you for following the show and I'll also put some links in the comments on if you want to support Shen Valley Teen Challenge you're free to do that below or if you need help the link will be there also please hit the like button subscribe to the channel and if you leave a comment we will do our best to respond ASAP God bless you and have a great day thank you