From Chaos to Clarity: Daniel's Journey of Recovery and Growth

Introduction and Current Weather

Hey, I just wanted to take a moment and welcome everybody to another episode of Rebuilding Life After Addiction here with Rob Grant and Daniel, and we are excited about another conversation. Man, it is like negative 10 degrees with the wind chill right now in Virginia, and Rob is grinning because he's in California. He's got a hoodie on, but I don't even think you need to be wearing it. It's almost like it's passive-aggressively bragging to me that it's warm out there.

Welcoming the Guest

Let me do y'all a favor and just step into my world for a moment with the weather. I'm going to be having an ointment when I see this. Yeah, I don't know. See, it's not that it's 58 degrees, guys. It's not that bad. Yeah, it's negative 5 and ice, man, all over the road, but I'm excited about another conversation, man. Rob, how you doing, bro?

Rob's Experience

Dude, it's been a very long week. Just came off of a nasty sickness. It's been going around everywhere, but other than that, man, I'm well. Dude, I mean, my life couldn't be any better, right? I'm alive, and that's what I'm grateful for. I'm grateful to be on another podcast. This is an old friend, man, that I went through Teen Challenge with, which is pretty interesting because like our stories, we were two separate people.

Daniel's Transformation

What intrigued me to even invite him on the show was one of his recent posts. I saw it maybe a couple months back, but it was just to see the transformation because I knew him at Teen Challenge, and I can vouch and say that the very thing that he posted was so genuine and so authentic. I was just like, man, I got to have him on the show because people struggle, and I think something that's really interesting to me is that when people struggle in life, they tend to hide it, right?

Importance of Sharing Struggles

They're like, man, how do I do this? I relapse, man, like what are people going to think of me? But Daniel, nope, like he'd be proud to say, man, I messed up, and guess what? I found that being sober is actually a lot better than what I thought it was going to be. So, it's just cool to see the transformation in you, Daniel, and what you're doing. I'm excited for you to be able to share your story and really let people understand the importance of being plugged into certain groups and communities, and how you essentially have bounced back from some shame that relapse can often cause.

Daniel's Background

Yeah, I can do that. I'm happy to be here. Nice to meet you, Daniel. What part of the country are you from? I'm from Tennessee; that's where I'm currently at now, and it is not nearly as cold in Virginia, but we're still pretty cold here. Yeah, we go down there to Sevierville, Gatlinburg all the time. I saw a meme on Facebook the other day. It said Sevierville and Gatlinburg is Vegas for Baptists. I shared it with somebody else; that's accurate. Yeah, we love going down there. Well, nice to meet you, man. I'm excited to hear a little bit about your journey as well.

Daniel's Introduction

Thanks for having me, guys, for real. Yeah, so I guess one of the things that I like to, you know, just, I guess, introduce yourself, Daniel. Like, you know, give us a little background, man, on like where you've been, and where God has kind of taken you now. Yeah. So, I'll try to make it as succinct as possible because obviously, especially when dealing with addiction, there's a lot of other avenues and stories that can be plugged in. But I'm from Tennessee, lived here all my life with the exception of when I was in Florida with Robert at Teen Challenge.

Family Background and Early Struggles

I grew up in what would be considered a pretty typical family household. We went to church a lot; I was in a private Christian school a lot, and just picked up some bad habits being around some people that—not even that I didn't need to be around, just that I wished I were a part of that specific group. And so, that's where the using started. Before that, I went through kind of the descent journey of getting in trouble with the law, I had full-time going in and out of treatment centers, hospitals, you know, and everything that comes with addiction a lot of times.

The Turning Point

But now, actually, I just celebrated six years in January. I believe, yeah, January 10th. And I’m working currently in the field. I’m working at a treatment facility now, like a rehab. It's got a residential component to it, but we have our own transitional living houses. So, a lot of times we can offer the guys that if there's no room there, we try to refer them out into the community to other places like that—IOP programs, that sort of stuff.

The Moment of Clarity

Nice. That’s awesome. So six years ago, what was the big switch for you? Because you said you were in and out of things. Like, what was that big aha moment for you, man? Because you grew up in a normal home, right? You know, like parents go to church with you, go to a good Christian school, and, you know, for many people, that's like the ideal life, right? A lot of people would love to be in your shoes. And so, like, you went astray, but yet I love that scripture where it says, "Train a child in the way that they should go, and they will never depart from it."

Parental Support and Realization

Right. It's like, man, I could only imagine, if you could maybe even speak into your parents, like, what was your parents' perspective on your life or what you were going through during that time? Right. So, I would kind of break up my story into like two halves. I started drinking pretty heavily towards the end of college, and a lot of stuff happened, and I got a DUI, my second one at the end of college. And that's where I wound up in Florida. I'd been to a treatment center, and then I moved to a halfway house and got kicked out of the halfway house and wound up at Teen Challenge in Florida.

The Importance of Addressing Underlying Problems

I stayed there for about six months after graduation, and I moved back here to Tennessee to go to school here in Jackson, Tennessee—Union University actually. And I don't even really know. I tell people like that first time I got sober, it was less about addressing the problems that led to my use and more about just don't drink or just don't use. And that does work for a while. I mean, it kept me sober for a while, but there's no foundation there. If your foundation is to use, as soon as you use, it's gone, you know?

The Final Shift

That's kind of what happened. I chose one night to just go out and drink, and I just didn’t stop until I got in trouble again; I got another DUI. And all through it, my parents had been supportive. They really had been. But there was a time too where, as loving as they are and as loving as they had been, they lovingly stepped back. At one point, it was kind of like, "You're on your own, man. I don't know what to tell you."

The Moment of Change

And that last time I was in jail, I remember thinking that switch, it wasn't even a big aha moment. I couldn't get struck down with, you know, like me or anything. I didn't like, oh, you know, it was just this final shift, like, "I can't keep living like this. Something's got to change." And I've blown as many opportunities as I've been given. So I was like, let me—whatever happens happens here while I'm in jail, you know? And thankfully, some stuff worked out, and I got to do another treatment center, another Teen Challenge here in Tennessee, actually.

The Relationship with God

But yeah, that was kind of it. I just was like, I can't do it anymore. This is not—I'm at the end of my rope. Yeah. And thankfully, once I made that decision too, from a distance, you know, they loved and cared for me and did the best they could, and also they kind of learned how to separate themselves while also supporting me, which I think ended up giving us a healthier relationship later.

Perception of God During Addiction

What was your view of God during that process, right? After kind of working through this, when you grew up in a Christian home and whatnot, and so when you went out and started to use life, start down the rabbit hole a little bit, how did you see God through that entire process, you know, as you were struggling and walking through that battle?

Early Ignorance of God

When I was younger and going through it, I didn't really—I didn't really care, honestly as much, as I would love to say that I ran right to him. I didn't, and church was really just more of a thing to me. Like I just was something that happened on Sunday and Wednesday. I would say that I believed there was a God, you know, but I didn't really—I didn't really care. It wasn't until I remember it pretty clearly too. I was in a hospital in Florida. I hurt myself pretty bad.

The Honest Prayer

And I sat down with a sheet of paper. My parents were like, "I've been kicked out of the halfway house. My parents were saying, you're not coming here." And I didn't have any of my friends' numbers, so it wasn't like I could call them. This was when I was in Florida, and I'm not from Florida. None of my friends live in Florida. I sat down, and I wrote what I think I considered to be my first honest prayer. I wrote, you know, "I don't really know what to say, God. I don't know what to do. I'm pretty scared. But I know that these decisions are mine, and I'm why I'm in this position."

Seeking Forgiveness and Understanding

All I ask is that moving forward, like I’m sorry for what happened. If I end up homeless, which at that time, if I had been discharged, I'd have just been on the street, that you just keep me safe. And I'm sorry. And I didn't really take hold of it. I know people listen and think, oh, why don't you just listen to him? Then, well, I'm still not out of that mindset. But like stuff started happening. And that's when my dad actually didn't call back.

Surrendering to God

He offered me the spot in Teen Challenge, and I went there, and my relationship grew. But again, it was less about dealing with those things that led me to drink and more about like, God is— you know, I had to work on a close relationship. But the sobriety and addiction and use was like a different issue to me. I never kind of merged them together.

Embracing Change

And so finally, I think I realized what it had, like I just—when I broke down in jail, it was like God was there. I could feel it that time, you know? And it was really just that sense of like, I gotta stop. This was for the better as miserable as I am. This was better than the alternative, which was death at that point, really. And then things again started happening once I surrendered.

A Turn in Perspective

What I love about that is that it’s like that battle Jacob went through, right? I mean, he— I mean, how many times did it take for him to kind of go through that conflict, you know, with Laban and all the other stuff? You know, stealing his brother's birthright for a thing of soup, you know? And that God working that deceiver out of him, and it wasn't like overnight. It wasn't until the mountaintop, and even then it was a wrestling match, you know?

The Journey of Transformation

I think a lot of times we—their up and I've kind of unpacked this a little bit. There are people that have these like the transformational clouds open up, light shines down from heaven, they get knocked off the horse, you know, if you will, like, Saul moments. But then there are others that just walk through this proverbial wrestling match, like giving up our control. And I think, man, I think that's okay too, right?

Working Through Pain and Forgiveness

And God has a way of drawing us back to him. Then these transformations, it's not always going to be as easy as all creation, new creation, right? There's like a journey that takes place. And, you know, between the before and after pictures that we see on the internet, there's a whole lot of pain in between those two places, and it's dealing with those places, the places of pain.

Addressing Mental Health Issues

Rob, it looks like you had a question, so. Yeah, well, you know, we had a really good brother in Christ. And, you know, we could all lift him up in prayer. His name is Ace. And he was recently on one of our casts last week, actually. But you were talking about like some of the mental things that kind of were ignored and kind of just, you know, pushed to the side. And that's what kind of cost a lot of your drinking and stuff like that.

Addressing Root Causes

And so, when you really didn't build that foundation and you never really had the opportunity to address those things. So this next time around, you're in the treatment center, like what did that look like for you addressing some of those things or rooted issues? Even sometimes even mental things, like issues, whatever it may have been. How did you process that, man? Like, because like, you know, we're so quick to be like, just pray about it.

The Need for Professional Help

There is this counselor that I had in Teen Challenge. He was always just like, "Pray about it, you know, just pray about it." You probably remember Russell, man. And I remember Russell well. Yeah, Russell passed away, but there was a lot of truth to what he would say. But then at the same time, there were some things, man, it's like, man, I just keep a friend to talk to and kind of flesh out some of these things I don't really know how to process on my own.

Facing the Giants of Mental Health

And so like, how are you able to face that giant personally and say, you know, now is the time that I'm going to face the very thing that I've been reluctant to actually address all these years? Yeah, that's a good question. You know, even still, you know, to this day, I'm having to readdress where I'm at and look at what's going on and address my focus. And you're right. I think a lot of times—and I used it as an excuse a lot of times to be angry, but a lot of times you hear when you go to somebody who's a believer or a Christian who means well, and they're like, "Well, have you prayed about it?"

The Complexity of Mental Health

Yeah. Can you do it some more? Do you think you've done it hard enough? Kind of thing. And it's like, I don't know how much harder or how much louder I have to yell for somebody to hear me. And for a while, that was really frustrating and really confusing. It wasn't really until I was out of treatment the last time, you know, and I've got a background in psychology and stuff like that.

Merging Spirituality with Mental Health

But it wasn't really until the last time where I was like, you really do need some people need it in different degrees, but you need that spiritual foundation of like, yes, I use, but it's because I'm falling, and it's because I do a lot of things, you know? Like, it's not that type of sin is a lot more visible, you know, but it's not much different than anybody else's. It's a lot of the same stuff goes into it.

The Support System

So it's taking that spiritual aspect and—for me, it was kind of merging it with real mental health therapy, some medication, plugging myself into places that I probably didn't want to. I even talked to my therapist about this. I didn't want to go to places like AA. I didn't want to go to places like Celebrate Recovery or anything like that in the beginning because I guess in my mind it was—I could say I had a problem, but deep down here, I don't know that I was really ready to admit that it was a problem.

Embracing Treatment Programs

And finally breaking down and going to those places was like the addition, the final wall. It was like, yeah, this is a place for me. And it took a lot of prayer, honestly, talking with somebody and allowing myself to be poured back into as well. I think that was another big one, because it was easy for me to think I’d had all the Christian stuff I could handle. Like now I just need this.

The Power of Therapy

Well, again, it takes really, I think, you know, kind of a merger of all that together and at different degrees for people. And so it was seeking out that help and actively kind of learning about myself and what I needed in addition to a church family, in addition to, you know, trying to keep that daily quiet time stuff going, in addition to reading books by, you know, people with much more knowledge and life experience than me. And so that's kind of how I ended up addressing it, you know?

Going Forward

And I don't know a lot of people that did it differently, but that's what ended up working for me, and that's what's been working, and so that's what I'm going to keep doing. Yeah, well, it's so funny that you brought that up, though, man, because drinking and theory, it's like it's socially acceptable, right? And our culture today, so it's like, this isn't a problem. Like when you go out, you want to go to a party, you drink, you know, you're at a—you're at this event, you have a drink.

The Temptation of Social Settings

It's like everything you do. And people are like, man, I can't get loose, or I can't be me unless I have a drink. Or it's like, this needs to be done. And so, it's like, okay, if I'm a bluer, you know, like just gone. That's not a problem. Like I just had a good time that night, you know? And so, it's—you know, I like that you brought that up, man, because for me, right, obviously I—you know, my choice of drugs were hard drugs.

Managing Temptations

And it's like, you know, it's like walking down the street, smoking a crack pipe or shooting dope off your arm. I say all that to say, man, like the battle that you had to face because like even now, it's like you're going out to certain places and you see it. And so the temptation that’s there constantly and that's pulling at you, like, how are you managing that, right? Because like you just—you mentioned earlier, right? Like I never knew it could be this fun going to a concert and being sober, right?

Discovering Sobriety

So enjoying good music with people that you love, now you're sober. It's like, but they might have these—you know, drink stands or you guys are going to get gassed, and it's like, you go to the—you know, gas station, there's all this, you know, being there. Like it was pre-game, it's like, and we're going to pre-game with sodas now, you know, rather than being like, how do you—like how do you manage that, man? Like for me that would be really hard.

Changes in Lifestyle

Yeah, and it was really hard in the beginning. I had to kind of change everything, you know? Like living a new life for—like living as a part of the kingdom rather than as like actively against it forces you to change a lot of stuff. And just not for right there, it first is—and you, and I had a choice too whether it was like, do I make these changes? And I can't say that I would have been like not a Christian anymore, but like the reality is like I wanted a fulfilling—I didn't want to just be sober like I was last time. I wanted a life.

Finding Purpose in Sobriety

And so part of that was one, you know, being involved in like the church, but also surrounding myself with people that I knew would keep me accountable. But also part of that too was being as honest as I possibly could about where I was at, which was also really, really difficult. Another thing I would do and still do is kind of—whenever I feel like, oh, maybe this isn't that bad, you know, and I tend to overcomplicate things personally. It’s like in my mind, it's—yeah, right? I think a lot of people do.

Breaking Down Challenges

But in my mind, like not drinking for the rest of my life feels like a really big deal. But even in AA, they'll say it too. It's like 24 hours a day, and it's like, well, if I can stay sober till the end of the day, maybe I'll re-address it then, breaking my time up into a little bitty, little bitty bits. Like, well, I'm not going to get gas, or I'm not going to get beer when I go into this gas station.

The Importance of Celebrating Small Victories

And then even kind of like congratulating yourself because those are big steps, especially if you're used to doing that over and over and over again. And then I think one of the biggest things was asking myself at the end of the day, as simply as possible, is maybe I can have a drink again, right? Maybe I can do all those things as people do, but is it worth risking what I have right now simply to have a beer?

Navigating Temptation

Is it worth risking going back to everything that I'd been through, like self-harm, you know, trying to take my own life, hospitals, ruining family relationships, friendships? Is it worth going back to the bar over? And now, it's easier to say no, but that wasn't always the case, but it's just continually reminding myself of where that came from, what happened, and what it's like now.

Personal Growth and Maintenance

Well, what was the mental work that it took to get through that, to that place, right? Where we're kind of moving out of the—I mean, I guess, delusions, the best way I can think of, right, that it's okay for me to do this to being able to have that clarity in mind to say that this isn't worth it. Like, what did it take for you to get through that process? I imagine there was a lot of work that went into that.

Exploring Mental Health

Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of time in prayer. Still, I found also that it was better and more—for me, I guess, when I heard prayer, it was like these really big, verbose, theologically dense prayers, and those are great. I really, I think there's a time and a place for those, but really what it boiled down to for me was being honest with God, like, God, like, I'm ticked off right now that I can't do this—you know?

The Beauty of Honesty in Prayer

Like why—why can't I just—journaling it out, being as honest and real as I possibly could and being honest with the friends around me as I possibly could. And through that, realizing that, like, mentally, the Lord could provide me with everything I thought that I needed when I was drinking. And I think that I was compartmentalizing like a spiritual person, a mental person, an emotional one, and so on and so forth.

Realizing God's Support

And so, it was this realization that the Lord could provide me with comfort from there too. And it took a lot of wrestling, as you put it to you. And something else I liked, I liked reading the story of, like, Moses, when the Lord called him, it was like, you know, he saw the burning bush, and it was like, okay, make that staff turn into a snake. Okay, you know, now do this, you know, and even still, he had to ask. But it was like every time I felt guilty about questioning God, it was like, I would go back to that.

Encouraging Self-Reflection

Moses was God's chosen, but he still provided every time he had a question, and he still provided every time he doubted. And even still, even without—that there was a little chastising too sometimes, you know? But like, he still provided what Moses needed in every single situation, even if it was to address doubts that he had about who God was. God was still willing to do that. And it was a lot of that was too. It was like, God, are you really going to say you want to do this? Can't I really do this?

Continuing the Journey

And the answers kept coming back, yeah, you can. I mean, you can do it, and everybody put around you, you know? So, yeah, that's so good. All right, guys. Sorry, I just wanted to add something. What I love that you said—sorry, you said something, Daniel, that was really impactful. You said, you didn't just get sober for yourself. You got sober so that you can be purposeful.

Embracing Purpose in Sobriety

And I think a lot of people tend to forget that they were created for an original design. We have an original design, an original blueprint to reproduce after our own kind, right? To multiply, to increase the kingdom. This is a kingdom that has lost many members. Yet if we are unwilling to deny ourselves of the things, the pleasures that we just once partook in, to reach out after those that don't have the same opportunities that we have, right? But to give them hope too, right?

The Invaluable Lessons Learned

Like, nothing was wasted. You have to go through what you went through so that the story that you are able to share with others, that you can relate to the people that you're working with even now. It's like, hey, look, man, I know you've probably been through this process a thousand times. Me too. But guess what, right? I can show you how to walk through this thing now. And that's the beauty, bro, like I love how the Lord purged you of every doubt, unbelief, and fear, and just the oppressing thoughts of wanting to even consider using.

Finding Freedom Through Journaling

And you were able to write it down. Like journaling is such an impactful thing that many people don't do. And it's like, we think journaling is like a thing that only women should do. It's like, oh, like, you journal? Like, what you're—you're weird. It's like, no, like releasing that—everything that's in you that doesn't belong—that's like a burden that's taken on your shoulders, right? And so, yeah, I just—I don't know. From knowing you to where you are now, like I'm just—I'm amazed, man. I'm so proud of you.

Accountability in the Community

Yeah, like six years—can I ask you a question about your work currently? And so, you mentioned that you're working in some treatment facilities now. And this is always something that intrigues me, being in a TC discipleship space, right? And some of the differences, you know, and not necessarily criticisms of one another, but just differences, right? From coming out of a very strong discipleship model to now where you're at on the other side working.

Comparing Approaches to Treatment

Is the treatment center you're working in now more clinical in nature? You know, how would you describe where you're at now and maybe some of those differences that us being from the TC network, right? All three of us, you know, TC family. I'd love to—I just love to hear about that and kind of hear about how other people are doing treatment, you know?

Daniel's Current Work Environment

Yeah, it's very clinical and it's very 12-step based. So while I don't—I make it pretty clear that like I feel and believe that like there's multiple ways for you to get clean and sober, but the way that worked for me was this. And I'm fortunate enough to be in a place that kind of allows that, you know? And so while the facility itself would be 12-step based clinical, we'll do a lot of clinical work, we refer out to mental health counseling, you know, we have intensive outpatient programs.

Differences Between Models

Very different from I guess the Teen Challenge—not all Teen Challenges, but the Teen Challenges I was involved in, you know? And so—But again, at the end of the day, spirituality is still a very big aspect for both the Teen Challenge and some—in a secular treatment facility, you know? There's still going to be that emphasis on spirituality always. That's almost the number one thing you kind of have to recognize is after, you know, like if you're using like the steps, like that's like the third one, you know, is admitting that like, you know, a power greater than yourself who restore you.

Sharing Insights into Treatment

And for me, that has very much been the case, restored me to sanity in a very big way. And I'm forever grateful for that. You know, we started working with Recovery Alive with the TC center that I'm working at currently, and kind of—they're John Eklund, the guy who wrote that book; he's taken the 12 steps, and it's probably similar to Celebrate, where everything is infused with Jesus.

Integrating Faith with 12 Steps

And I heard him break it down; he said, you know, the 12 steps really are just love God, love others, and then go serve. He's like, you know, he's like that's the simplest way to put it. He's like, it is just discipleship! Like, you know, it's the 12 steps of discipleship. And he—a lot of this has come from Recovery Alive, the TC program that I'm working at currently, and, kind of, they—they're in a place that allows that.

Work-Life Integration

I've been really, really helpful, you know, for their process, right? And I think too like, I think you mentioned something as well, like it provides just some structure to whether you're using it in like a secular setting or not. Like, let's say you're using it in a Teen Challenge, it just gives you kind of like a roadmap aside from like when Robert and I experienced a lot of—and in some of our Teen Challenge days, like they just pray about it.

Navigating Recovery and Maintenance

It was like, you can pray about it, but then there's steps to take after. And there's things to explore that can be with that. And I think the 12 steps can be very helpful to kind of integrate that Christ-focused mentality into it can be very helpful integrating it all together. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, how long have you been working there now?

Transitioning Roles

At this particular place, just about six months now, I was—I started in July. Before that, I was working at the school, and before that, I was at just a strictly outpatient program. Like I was teaching Athens about patient classes and I was a case manager for like a recovery court.

Establishing Support Systems

Yeah, so now that you're doing this, like what systems have you actually put in place, like for yourself, like accountability-wise? Are you plugged into your church? Do you go to a small group outside of what does that look like for you now? Yeah, I mean, a lot— a lot like that. You know, I'm recently switching churches, so that’s been—that's actually been a really fun experience, though too, but I'm looking to get more involved, looking actively looking for a small group outside of church.

Building a Supportive Network

But being involved with people in it, you know, and just asking them, you know, like, where can I get involved? What can I do? Staying in touch with some of those people outside of church. Again, those people that I know will keep me accountable and kind of stuck with me through all that stuff. I'm very fortunate to have a lot of friends that kind of prayed me through it and are still my friends to this day.

Practicing Self-Care

And journaling is a big one. I try to—I try to exercise a lot. You know, like, it’s about finding a system that works for you as well. And that's what, you know, being involved with my friends, physically fit, journaling, and the spiritual family aspect of it is what helps keep me sober after spending a day of trying to help others in their sobriety.

The Challenges of Recovery Work

Yeah, that's good. Such a holistic view, man. So what have you learned through this process? Like, Rob was talking about mentioning that, man, like, there's this element of fun, right, in your life and on outside of— outside of, like, to hold. And just being in the recovery world, working in the recover world, right? It's extremely draining, you know? Like, it can eat you up and wear you down. I mean, that's just—that's just the life of—the work, man.

Discovering Joy Beyond Addiction

So how have you learned, man, you talked about that unlining? Like, how did you end up discovering the stuff that brings you joy? Yeah, you know, and finding those hobbies very practically speaking because I—quick story and I won't go into a long dissertation on this. But I remember when I got home from Teen Challenge, I married a woman who—a girl who, when we were getting married, she grew up in the—we weren't married yet, but man, she grew up in the church. She had never touched a drug in her life.

Navigating New Relationships

And I'll never forget the first time I sat down with the family dinner around her—with her and all of her family members. And they're all sharing all these stories. And like, these are all fun, wholesome, like good stories. And I'm like, what can I tell you about the time the house I was in got raided? You know? Like, and it was just like a very real issue coming up, you know, my entire life had been drug addiction, you know? And I'm sitting down having these wholesome conversations.

The Investment in New Memories

And like, I had to earn those memories and those conversations. Like, I had to put the work in. I mean, right? So how did you end up finding some of those things, man, like when on your journey that was positive and life-giving? All right. Yeah. Well, I think you bring up a really good point that not a lot of people realize either is that it's almost a form of institutionalization addiction is, you know? You come out of it and it's like that's all you know.

The Hurdle of Transitioning

And so a lot of times your stories early on revolve around that. And that was very alienating for me at first, you know? Like a similar story was—I've gotten some tattoos done. And, you know, most of them I remember, but then somebody would ask me about one, and it's like, I don't know. I don't know where I got that when I woke up in jail one morning and I just had—they were like, “Okay, I'm going to put the wallet away.”

Building a New Identity

I think the first thing was I had to really embrace the concept of God's grace. That was the first thing for me because that really, at the core—and I'm surprised I hadn't mentioned it by now because I'll tell anybody this is really where it all started, Teen Challenge the second time was recognizing and realizing what God's grace really truly was. That that was total and immediate and complete release from guilt and shame and condemnation from before I made this decision to after it.

Finding Freedom in Grace

You know, I’d never been or felt completely free until that very moment. I didn't realize what grace was. I could tell—I could tell you the definition, but I didn't believe it, not deep down, you know? And it wasn't really—but it wasn't really until I realized that like his grace is—and this came a lot of this, and I can share it with y'all another time if you'd like, but the Holy Spirit told me to write something down and I wrote it, you know, and I wrote—and I went back and ran it.

The Release of Burdens

It was basically like, “You’re free. Stop it.” You know, and it wasn't really until I realized that like his grace was as much for the disciples as it was for the Roman soldiers that like I—I can't explain to you what happened in that moment. Again, it wasn't just this huge sky opening but it was almost as though you could feel the weight fall off of me, you know?

Living in Freedom

And then it was like, okay, now let's do this. This is where it starts. This is that freedom. This is where I can do things, and it was, you know, re-learning a lot of hobbies that I'd set aside. A big one was reading. A big one was running. A big one was music. I love music. I don't play any instruments, but I really like music.

Building the Right Community

And so, again, aligning myself with people that were positive influences is finding things to do with them. And it really was just learning about how to do life and learning who I was in the kingdom, who I was without drugs and alcohol, who I was after grace. I mean, that's what it boils down to, you know? And so, I had to try a lot of stuff too. Some of it I didn't like, you know?

Remaining Open to New Experiences

Like I tried painting, I didn't like it. I wasn't good at it, and it made me frustrated, so I didn't do it anymore. But even still, it was really constant prayer too. Like, I was scared that life was going to be boring, and it's not. I can do everything and anything I did, and then some sober that I was doing when I was drunk. I have money; I have more time; I have more friends; I remember stuff. It's like looking back, it's like, why didn't I do any of this earlier?

Conclusion and Call to Action

And so, that's so good, dude. The hobby thing, like I feel like a life thing for me. I feel like I have still yet to find the hobby. I'm like, what do I want to do? You know? Like you have three kids, so that takes up a lot of your time, and you're married, and all these different things. But that's true, right? Like, what are you willing to like open yourself up to? Just try different things, and if you don't like it, you know, right? What was that for you?