The Calling Stayed, But the Plan Changed

No Clear Five-Year Plan

J: So this is the first time in ministry that I don't think we've had a clean five-year plan.

A: Is it the first time

J: I think so. It doesn't feel like that, but I was thinking about the ups and downs over the last six months. Specifically coming back to SVTC, having an idea of how things were going to work out..

Trying to Revitalize Residential Ministry

J: Like, we're going to revitalize the residential program, right? It's going to be what it was in 2015.

A: Times have changed.

J: Zero to 160 students overnight. And then six to seven months of just not going the direction.

A: I interrupted hard.

J: Yeah. Hard is a good word. Hard is a great word for it.

We Listed the Building for Sale

J: And then to list the building in December once we got the deed. For good reasons. You don't need a building if you're not housing students.

A: Nobody wanted the building.

J: No. But it's a great building.

A: It is.

J: But you think about that. We put it on the market for a fair price. Maybe it was timing. Maybe it was just God closing the door.

A Gift Changed the Direction

J: And then a miracle gift shows up. Now we're like 70% of the way painted on the outside. Today it's raining and we're here. I got paint on my shoulder, paint on the hand, and I wasn't even painting.

A: I've been having memories. Especially today when you and I are here painting alone.

Painting the Building Again

A: Fifteen years ago. Good gracious. When we first got this place. Drop ceilings everywhere. Plaster walls on the other side. Nobody up here helping. It was just you and me. I remember standing outside painting. That day I was out there painting the side of this building basically alone. I don't even think you were here that day.

J: No, I met Mr. Say, who ended up selling us the property for Teen Challenge years later.

A: Yeah. So even when you can't see it, God is working.

What Are We Actually Certain About?

J: That's true. But what does that do for you certainty-wise? When you think about the ministry and where we are now, what are we actually certain about?

A: I was thinking about that too. I was in the bathroom and I was like, oh my gosh, déjà vu. I remember painting this bathroom, this same bathroom, just a different color. Seeing a glimmer of the color from back then. I'm like, oh my gosh, here we are again. Came around full circle.

A: Another idea, another thing. Another, "yes, we're going to do this." That's the part that's sometimes hard to explain to people.

Helping a Few People Get Their Lives Back Together

A: When somebody wants to get involved, they want to know what they're getting involved with. The heart of the ministry. The last couple of months I've been going back to the statement you used to say all the time. "I just want to help a few people get their lives back together." The beauty and the simplicity of that.

Worship Nights, Groups, and the Studio

A: Stepping out in faith. Right now, knowing okay, I prayed, and at this moment we're going to finish this project. We're going to get this building renovated. I'm doing monthly nights of worship. Launching small groups. The podcast in here, finishing the studio. Being able to share our story and our journey with people, but also bring some other folks in and record for them if they want it. Hopefully raise some revenue for the ministry.

You Can Only Put the Seed in the Ground

A: Other than that, you can only put the seed in the ground. It's up to the Lord. If it grows, you do what you can to take care of it. But the Lord's got to grow it.

Just Do the Next Thing

A: Sometimes you have desires, but like you said, you were painting outside before and Mr. Say came. So you just do the next thing. Just finish the building. You don't know what's going to happen in the midst of that. Or, hey, let's start groups and a worship night. You don't know what's going to happen in the midst of that. Being faithful in that, letting God do the work instead of having to do the work ourselves all the time.

Obedience Isn't About Outcome

J: Obedience isn't about outcome. Obedience is about obedience. Hebrews says faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. Having that assurance that regardless of what the outcome is, there's a growth that's going to happen in us. Every yes along the way has taught us something different.

A: You see those retrospectively. You don't always feel it in the moment.

J: Hindsight is 20/20.

A: Yeah. Unless you're in the year 2020. 2020 vision was garbage.

J: That was garbage. Yeah.

A: A lot of times we take out the God factor. Like you said, you want the outcomes. You want to make the outcomes. I want to make a lot of people come. I want people to sign up. And it's like, dude, God do that. A reminder that you don't have it all together actually. But God's got the plans. He's got the steps farther than we do.

Selling the Building Wasn't Random

J: We talk about vision a lot, putting a plan together. So selling the building wasn't a spur of the moment, off-the-cuff decision. Trying to sell it was planned out for probably 11 months. That was, what are we going to do?

J: That's the part of having to make a pivot. There shouldn't be that many barriers between putting something on the market and having it sell. You'd think not. And then it just doesn't work. So now you're pivoting. I didn't plan on being in this location. God, you got jokes.

The Gift Changed How We Saw the Building

J: The gift changes some of that, because in your mind you're processing. Okay, well now the side of the building needs some work. The stewardship angle. You're listing the place for $350,000, you get an offer for $265,000. That's almost $100,000 less. I don't feel like that's a great decision.

J: Now a gift comes through, allows us to put some resources into the building. This happened when we moved out of our home. When we got our house ready to sell in Verona, we did all the work. The kitchen was beautiful. Everything was so clean. When the place is neat and in order and looks good, you start seeing it in a different perspective. That starts to ignite some ideas.

J: Maybe we can do the groups here. Initially the thought was, Mount Jackson is really far away, I don't know if anybody's going to show up. For whatever reason, we're still in this property. So I'm not going to sit around. The fact that the building doesn't sell. I'm going to make the most out of what I have.

A: Absolutely. It's just clear, open space. All the ideas that can come together with just open space.

What the Gift Did and Didn't Solve

J: From your perspective, what did the financial gift solve, if it solved a problem? And what problems didn't it solve?

A: Two sides of that. Let me start with the bad first, then I'll go to the good. It didn't solve a continuous need. It was absolutely a blessing and very timely. But there are monthly things we need to pay for. Regular day-to-day stuff. We need continuous giving, monthly gifts.

Why We Can't Just Reopen Residential Overnight

J: Somebody asked me, "Well, you got the place, why don't you just put students in the program?" We could put more people in the house. Absolutely. But there's a financial burden. You're talking staffing 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So you're right, it didn't solve the need for monthly support.

J: If we're going to serve students, we're going to serve them well. There's a difference between just pulling people into a house and having a program with the staff and systems to serve people at a high level.

A: A lot of people don't think about that. They're like, "oh, just bring the students." That is exciting. But there's so much more behind the scenes that you don't see day to day, but we walk through.

J: I'd mourned making the decision to close the residential program. We do love the residential program. I'm sitting here talking, Ashley, like, maybe I should just move in up there for a little bit.

A: Sorry, this thing's rolling.

J: But it didn't solve that. If we're going back to residential, it's got to be done in a way that's sustainable. That's the prayer. That's why having this location, doing the podcasting, doing the groups, doing the things that aren't so expensive but still able to serve people in our local community.

J: Build on the back end so that when we launch the residential again, all the dollars don't have to come in at once. We already have a lot of that base built.

I Have Faith, But I Also Have Brains

A: But you don't have faith. If you had faith, it would work.

J: I do have faith. But I also have brains.

Maybe This Building Is Where We Need to Be

J: What did the gift solve? It solved stress. It clearly made us stop and pay attention. Oh, maybe this building is actually where we need to be. Not so much, let's get rid of it. Let's keep moving. Going to the building, getting some finances to put it together, get it to the place where it needs to be.

Worship Nights and Family Support Groups

A: It's been fun doing that. We've talked about these nights of worship. Planning those starting at the end of May. Once a month on Friday nights. Getting local worship teams in, coming in, going after the Lord with people. We've got the family support group on the calendar.

J: I enjoy hanging out up here. I've spent a lot of time up here by myself these days. Me and the Holy Spirit, just praying over things. I'm excited to see how the Lord moves.

A: I think it'll just build. Yes, you say groups and worship nights, but I truly believe that's just the start. God's going to build on that. We can't even think it through. What maybe the plans are that He has for it.

Saying Yes to Whatever Comes Next

A: You're saying you want to plan a church?

J: I'm saying I'll say my next yes to whatever that looks like.

Knowing the Cost of Ministry

J: I was listening to Christine Caine on a podcast the other day. She was talking about her journey, leadership, all this stuff she's walked through. She made a statement that struck me. Something I'd been wrestling with over the last year.

J: She said, "I'm jumping out of the helicopter and I know I can do it. I know this is the assignment. I've got the muscle memory. I'm strong enough. And I'm crying. But for the first time in 37 years of being a Christian, I don't know if I want to."

J: I'd never been there. I'd always been at, I don't know if I can. But I'd never been at, I don't know if I want to, because I know the cost associated with doing it.

J: In my own way, I was languishing as we've been in this season. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Things have been difficult. Not seeing the support come in. The residential program not panning out the way I anticipated. A lot of other ancillary things in the middle of all that.

J: Asking myself, really having to sit down with the Lord. Okay, God, I know what it's going to cost. I know what it cost from 2007 to 2016. I know what it cost to go two years only getting paid once a month with a family in tow. I understand the cost associated with ministry. What is the cost, and are we willing to pay it?

The Cost Is Obedience

J: Sometimes that cost is just being willing to be obedient. That's been the story of our life, right? The next yes.

A: Yeah. It's not easy. But God is faithful through that. We've seen a lot of good things, just being obedient. Just trusting that the Lord's going to work it out.

Bringing People Along This Time

J: We just wanted to bring you guys in. Thank you for following along. Roping Ashley in and having more conversations.

Documenting the Journey the Second Time

J: One of the things I've said before is, I wish when we did Teen Challenge from 2007 to 2019 that I had documented the journey more. I took a lot of pictures. But some of these conversations, what we're doing, figuring it out along the way. I kind of wish I had done that.

J: Maybe that's why we're in this position. God is granting my wish to document the journey the second time as we do this again.

J: Thanks for following along and your support. We'll see you soon. God bless.