He Was Running Drugs for the Mafia - Then Met Jesus in a Jail Cell

Authentic Deliverance and Personal Transformation

For people that are watching, draw us into authentic deliverance. I'm going to jump all the way back to when I got arrested and, you know, in the back of the police car, threw my hands up, and I said, I'm yours. And that's when the Holy Spirit entered me. You know, I had one of those Paul transitions, and, man, we got all these people delivered, but nobody's getting the truth. And wonder why, man, this wasn't real. You have the deliverance, you have the encounter, but they're not really getting fed the word, taking the word in, and really self-discipline, self-to-have the word.

Like you're doing here because I get most of the guys getting more Scripture up and down better than me. I said, it's not how much you know, it's how much you surrender to God. You can have a little and surrender to God and be powerful. You had a moment. The Lord dealt with you. He started to work in your life. You built up this level of success and then like, okay, give it back to me. But when you find the pearl, he takes you to another place. So you’re not going to get until you sell it all. You're not going to find the pearl because he wants to take you there.

The Holy Spirit’s Presence and Providence

And I had to go through that to get to the next understanding that he's watching me. Can he handle it again? Can he make it through this? So we're out here in Maryland today. And, man, we're on this, like, what we’ll have to be a real showing of the video, the property, but a place that you would never know is here. And yet it is a place where I told Joe just a few minutes ago, we were praying, like, I could just feel the presence of the Lord on this property the minute we walked into it. And that's not, that doesn't happen by accident, right? I mean, people pour into that.

And so Joe, thanks so much for jumping on our show today. And man, how are you? I'm, I'm real good. I'm real good. We're some brothers that God has touched. I can, I know God's got your heart. And that is such a good feeling, you know, wow, that brings tears to my eyes. It's a long journey sometimes. You get to know that. But God has been with us through it all and grown us. And, you know, I guess, you know, I’m going to jump all the way back to when I got arrested. And, you know, in the back of the police car, threw my hands up, and I said, I'm yours.

The Role of Generational Curses in Our Lives

And that's when the Holy Spirit entered me. You know, I had to one of those Paul transitions. And, you know, got a 35-year sentence, interstate transportation. And I should have got 100 years if anybody really knew what I was doing. But I always say, you know, the foundation and surrendering to Christ is where it's all at, you know, because if we don't surrender, we can't make that next move of being born in the spirit. And I got born in the spirit right in the back of that police car.

No, I didn't know Jesus. I knew God. What? You mean you're in the back of a police car? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. But before I did that, you know, I had a recording studio. I was there was a cult, and God just finished three albums with Warner Brothers. So they blackballed him. I had six wives, 21 kids. Unbelievable. You know, he was Satan's child. You know, Satan, I mean, he would believe he was the God of the dead, the dead, you know, really, really, really.

And I opened this recording studio because I was trying to quit dealing. I said, how am I going to support my lifestyle? And, you know, I had such a drug habit, you know, cocaine, and also in the Bolivian Mafia family, cartel. I was going to Bolivia, had how do I hold a group of people? But we can't, so just I'm trying to set it up for you to look at. We can't, we can't go right past that, right?

Exploring Dark Past and Turning to God

Yeah, you can't say that, I mean, not like Warner, you have to go a little deeper. So I knew the cocaine cowboys and I had connections with Cuban Mafia and in the keys, also in New York, some heroin people. So, I realized, let me get to the real story. My grandfather was a bootlegger in D.C. He was one of the wealthiest men in Washington. He died when he was 33 and he left millions to my family, and he had three daughters. He was Joseph Mar. I was the first boy out of the three daughters and they named me after my grandfather.

So I had this, I call it a generational curse on me that I didn't know until, you know, until I got out of it, what that did and that gold of never. I wanted to outdo my grandfather. And he was like, his father was a chief of police in Washington, so they had it set up, you know, so with all that said, you know, with the resentments, I got sexually abused when I was young, and that resentment that Satan bound me, I guess it was about six or seven years old. And I'm saying this because there's a reason for the generational curse and being bound to the fear and resentment and not feeling, not knowing how to read and write until I was 45.

So, you know, you're a little kid growing up and you don't fit in anywhere. And, you know, but I had this desire. So I had that gift, God gave me a gift before time. That's how he does it. And Satan knew how to manipulate it and use it for his kingdom. And he grabbed me. All those things, all that hurt and pain made me strive and never going, I'm never going to get stuck. I had no fear of anything going on because I had a goal. And so I want, you know, you have to earn your dues on the street, you know, you don't just get moved without learning how to move and know how not to get shot and how to get robbed.

The Realization of God's Call

And, you know, my word, I still went by my word. I was good at what I did. If I told you I was going to give you this, you got what you got. So all that said, I got to the point where with the recording studio, and I was going to Bolivia. They found out I paid my bills in the States, and the boys in Bolivia came to meet me because who is this guy that's paying his bills? That's how I got moved around the mafia. So I was going to Bolivia. I had a family. This is right in the cartel. I mean, they treated me like they were Catholic. They worshipped, you know, the God of Mary.

But there was a real family. They loved me, you know, and I was, you know, traveled with them in Bolivia. And I had one of my guys that was from the 82nd Airborne. You know, that movie American; Tom Hanks played Barry, there's a cocaine guy that the CIA set this guy up, and that guy that was Barry. He was a guy that became my partner and was living in Miami. And that's how I got things rolling.

So, I'm giving you a little insight. I'm not going to stay too long with this part. But I wanted you to know how God uses our gifts for his—Satan is going to use your gifts, or God's going to use them for his kingdom once you surrender. And that's how the world is. You know, all these gifts people have, they all come from God, but they're just in the dark. And I knew, you know, even though I couldn't read and write, I still had a gift of like an unstoppable desire that I wasn't going to quit.

Searching for Meaning and the Defining Moment

And now I'm in that doing this for God's sake, but at that point where I had the guy that was doing the recording, we're getting ready to do an album going to Warner Brothers. You know, he had multiple wives, and he was convincing me I could, you know, all Satan's attractions is all fleshly. You know that. And it was I had the best connection to hear it, thinking I was going to give many wives. You know, I had the best connection on the planet at the best cocaine. You know, I was set up.

But one of the things that happened when I was in—we went on a trip in South America, Peru, with my boss and my girlfriend and my partner. And I got into this. We stopped at this restaurant, and it was Frank Sinatra had a song going, “I did it my way.” And here I heard that, and all of a sudden this darkness and emptiness fell on me like, man, there's something wrong. I've got here, and there's nothing. And that's when I started trying to figure out how I was going to get out. And that's when I started going to the recording studio, trying to find another thing that was flesh because of my habit that, you know, I thought that would do it. And that wouldn't do it.

Before I went back to that one trip, first time I talked to God, I said, “God, if you stop me, I'll turn my life over to you.” Wow. I can't stop myself. And that's when I got coming back from Miami. I went down to, because I had everybody else do picking stuff up, and I went down there, you know, and on the way back, you stopped me. I was in Georgia. The back of the car said, I'm yours. Wow. And when I met, I'm yours, I met I'm yours because I knew what darkness was. And there's nothing there. It's the emptiest part of the world. You know, we’re still fighting getting free from him, even in the churches right now. And it's all, it's all a deception.

The Importance of Walking with Christ

What is, you know, the best thing in the world is walking with. There's nothing more. And walking with Christ, like you guys know, what can you get that? You can't go get a job and get that. It's got to come from God. I don't want to assume Christ can move you. Right. When it comes to how the stuff works, but I don't like. So being in the mafia with your connections, you had a moment in the family, or I had my own family. Okay, so I was a guy that said everything and worked my way up to them. You know, they were going to feed me whatever I wanted back to create my family.

And people were taking stuff out of the right. I had a position. I had probably about five or six guys, but I kind of stayed in the background. I was pretty. There were so many people after me that the FBI, the FBI and the CIA, all of them. I didn't know if I was— they were letting me do this. I didn't know if there’s a tool. I was supposed to be him. My boss was friends with him. I don't know if they were using me to set him up. You know, you don't ever know what's going on. The police were involved in some of this.

The Moment of Revelation and Spiritual Warfare

So it was something that all things—what is the moment? It is to be in exercise? When I talked about, you made a statement earlier about the generational curse coming from the bootlegger. But you used a very unique phrase. “I had a gift. God put that gift in me from the beginning.” That's what, so that's what blew my mind. How can I do this? How can I move around all these people and not die? You know, from car accidents, the guns after me. God had a purpose for me that he was going to make sure I fulfilled it.

Sometimes in that process, that perception, when we're running from the Lord, we're not using our gifts for his kingdom. So it's like we've got to push everything. We've got everything from my past life. But if I'm listening to your story, your transportation skills, your administration, leadership, like I’m seeing all these gifts that even though they weren't being used in the kingdom of God, they were being used in the kingdom of God. They were all there. I had a mystic gold. He was bringing me gold back. I had a mystic gold. I had a horizon floors. I had a carpet company. So people wouldn't know what I was doing.

But doing it so people wouldn't be attracted to what I was doing. I had to have some kind of, and then something else I was raising hands. And then of course, the recording studio and then the family, you know, this cartel, all those things took some kind of business sense that's gifting from God. But it's a generational curse. And maybe you might have something to add on this too. But like, I guess going breaking right and starting to see the Lord redeem that because I don't think sometimes we realize how much is passed down.

Breaking Generational Curses

You might have realized it in a moment. I didn't know I was all up until that time that your father was a bootlegger. I grew up being coached in how special he was. It was the diamonds, all my family. They were wealthy. You know, they worshipped him and how special he was to them. The money and all the drinking and the party and all the worldly things they had at all. And that's all I knew I was going after. I was going to top that, you know, I wanted to be better than him.

So you were being trained in the business basically? Yeah, but all the hurt and pain, you know, you use that to keep it from finding peace. I found peace in doing worldly things. And that's not really peace. But you believe a lie. You get captured. And that's why any of the Bible says they’re blind. They’re captured. They can't see. They're working for Satan. And they're building his kingdom instead of God's. And the world is, that's why it's so hard financially for us guys in the kingdom because the money isn't our goal. And it's hard to get the team to help us move and do the thing God wants us to.

The Impact of Childhood Trauma on Spiritual Growth

And I'm praying that he helps us financially because we're all under stress. But, you know, I think he's going to release some things and really get this motor running down the road. We said something else that I think we should kind of hit on too. Because I think this is what—and you just kind of tied it in there for me. So this is mobily, if anyway, that Satan always finds childhood trauma to attach demonic spirits on and to fill an appetite. Because no matter how many people I've talked to or dealt with, one of the guys that helped me imprison the counselor, he actually was a sex therapist for a long time for pedophiles and all kinds of that.

You know what I mean in prison? It's like, no, no, no, you know, talk to them people. So I had a hard time understanding him and that. And he really helped me because he was sharing how, you know, most of us as drug addicts, you know, when I was little, I never said I want to be like my parents and be a drug addict. I didn't want to be like that. Exactly. But we wound up being like that. And the reality is most people that are sex offenders now were molested. You know what I mean? So it's that same ties the drug addiction.

I never put it like that until you shared it with me. And so what I'm hearing is like this gift that God gives you. This is also what I believe when Satan attacks as a young one in a vulnerable child state that doesn't know how to react to that. And then it's all taboo and pushed down to nobody wants to talk about it. We hide that sexual sin and that just gives darkness a chance to latch on. And so from our early age, I believe his goal in that trauma is to prevent the gifts from getting you to seek the things you sought. And you got fulfilled in out of that, because you couldn't find any other way.

The Journey Towards Healing and Freedom

It covered up where my feelings were. It filled the hole that nobody could fix except Jesus. And I started this because I'm going to get to the point where he released me from the spiritual bondage. I was 10 years clean. But he had to get my foundation set before he could release me for his kingdom. But I was still in bondage. I don't want to jump that. But I want you to know that was so important. And I see the guys that we're not even aware of our spiritual bondage that we're walking in. And we think we're okay, especially the guys with the phone and social media. They're so attracted to the world.

They're never going to feel the freedom and be able to allow the Holy Spirit to come in and fill that. So we've got to make room for them. And if we keep it full with stuff, they're giving him room, he can't come in there. We haven't surrendered. And that's why it's so, you know, love your guy with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, with all your strength. And that transforms our whole way of living and understanding. And we've got to get there. If we want all that God has for us, we've got to get there. And that's the place that these guys can thrive.

The Need for Discipleship and Authentic Community

Like you and Pastor here are thriving because God has released us from the bondage. And that's what I think. I know people are going to be listening. That's why I thought it was necessary to bring that up. I think there's a whole lot of Christians that have had the encounter and they're saved. But there's that one thing that they won't talk about. There's that one thing, childhood molestation or abuse or whatever, that they lock down in there. And because they won't release that bondage, even though they're saved, sitting in church, they're still not free.

And the mistake made there, because they've associated with the gift. So it seems to be like, I've seen guys throughout the years come through phenomenal chefs, cooks, construction guys. But what I hear, I can't go back to that field because there's something there. It pulls me down every time. It's not the field. And so they end up blowing that gift, God's gift. Because it's—I mean, look, I'm no carpenter, right? I can't do all the wiring and stuff, but the woodworking and all that. But yet, there's that bondage.

And so you started to go there. Now I'm really, you got me curious with how, how did that journey work? I'm going to, that's what I want to say. So when I got out of jail, I had one relapse. And then I finally had, first time I understood Jesus was with me. And I said, you'll never get me again. And that was, that was only two months out of jail. You know, I only knew drugs for the 10 years constant every day. You know, a fifth of crown royal a day and your bag of pot and a quarter ounce of coke.

And, you know, that was my lifestyle. And then getting out of jail, my flesh was still, I didn't have it under control yet. But at one time, I said, never again. And that's when God showed me how to start to walk with Jesus. I didn't know Jesus until that point, until I really called on him. And then that was the beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I became best friends with the sheriff. They went to the judge and asked the judge for—I got out in 18 months. Wow.

The Power of Community and Recovery

And I spent 90% of my time with the sheriff every day. I was driving him. I was spending time. I went and did testimonies with him. I became his right-hand man in jail. I mean, it was like something. And then we're still best friends. So that really has been amazing. But so my first wife got married. I knew I wanted to please God. So I said, I'm not going to be sleeping. We're going to get married and do this God's wife. My life is going to be God's wife from now on. And that's where it started.

And she accepted the Lord, but she still had, I said, I just say she died of unforgiveness, but the opiates killed her. She started drinking, ended up with OxyContin. And here I am getting out of jail. We opened a business. I had a floor business in Maryland, D.C. God just opened the door. I started, you know, for, I first started at $8 an hour. Happy as I could be. Yeah. You know, I was used to a briefcase full of money, but $8 I was appraised to lower. I was excited about it. It’s $8 an hour, you know.

And then a guy offered me a business, and they couldn't come to an agreement on how much he would own and how I’d sell it. I said, well, I'm just going to open up my own business. It's so crazy to hear that briefcase is the money. Like I was a terrible drug dealer. I was just no good at it. You know, and so like, you hear somebody talking about that, and like I'm like—anyways, so I digress. Well, it's okay because I bury them. And then two weeks later, I did it out because I used up my stash. I mean, they're buying more for you.

Journey Through Addiction to Recovery and Hope

You never get rich. It's an illusion. It is. That's all I can't have. That's okay. So my first wife, you know, had this, you know, got abused when she was young. She loved the Lord, but she blamed her parents. It was just she couldn't forgive. And that's why it's so important for us to understand God forgave. He forgave me for me. And so I have to, I have to have forgiveness for it. No matter what anybody does, I can't judge you. You know, how can I judge you?

We've got to forgive me for who I was, you know, so she couldn't get that. And it got to the point where she ended up overdosing multiple times with OxyContin and doctors. I went to the doctors. They said, well, you don't have the right to talk to us. I couldn't even get the doctor's attention. She's going to die if you don't quit giving her. And they said, well, this is privacy act. How crazy is that when you don't love one, you know, is dying? And they won't talk to you because they have the right to get high and kill themselves. That's what they're saying.

But anyway, what God taught me in that time was the most valuable. There was 18 years I spent with my first wife before she passed. She showed me who I was or used to be. And I had to live with somebody that had addiction. And I had to learn how to love them every day. The Ephesians 10:6—my war is not with flesh and blood. And that's how I can do what I do here. Because I'm not battling these guys. I'm battling the guy that they're listening to.

Understanding Spiritual Warfare

And, you know, once they get free from that, they're the gift that God made. But until they can, their mind is going to be listening to the wrong side. And that's why I can do this. And this is not a burden to me because I know who I'm fighting. I'm not fighting them. I'm fighting the demons in the spiritual world, the principalities. So that helped me really understand.

So when that happened, we finally made it into celebrate recovery. And the first time I went to celebrate recovery, I was afraid to go in the door. I sat in the parking lot the whole time and drove off. But I got in there next week because I saw Christian counselor Mary K. I'm still friends with her. She says God’s going to do miracles. So I said, okay, I'm going to check this out. So I opened out of jail, had businesses, went to church, felt like an alien, afraid to talk in church. I did some—the soundboard because I had the studio.

But there was nobody in church that I could talk to. Thank you. You know that? You want anybody? I love you guys. But then you don't know where I've been. So I learned, I felt like an alien. But then celebrate recovery kind of opened a new avenue. So the first time I went into celebrate recovery, I got on my floor because I didn't know how to help my wife. I said, “God, what could you do with me so I could learn how to help my wife?” And man, that prayer opened the door.

Discovering a New Calling Through Recovery

And two weeks later, I was in a men's group, a safe place to share. I'll just say, you know, we need that safe place to share because it's got to come out. And I shared about, you know, being dyslexic, sexually abused. All the things that Satan had me since I was almost six or seven years old. You know, I first thought of my told anybody. And that, I felt, I started, he said, you tell me about the bricks came up. I floated out of that room. And that's when the Holy Spirit anointed me with my gifting of what he wanted me to do.

It wasn't a week, two weeks later, I was in the White House in the Capitol with Chuck Colson. He told me to go back down to D.C. where I was born and find a jail minister. I called up a black friend, a girl from my—that I knew she was in D.C. and she had been singing in the bands. I said, tell me the roughest place in D.C. I don’t want to go down there and meet the pastor. And she gave me a letter. You know, I went down to this, this call her up. Can I come down and talk to you?

Didn't know anything of any avenue, the worst place in D.C. The bars on the church, you know, they had not on the door. Took 10 minutes for somebody to come up and do a living. And man, it was like I found a home. You know, you know, I have, when I was little, we had a maid. Her name was Rose Lee. And that was my comfort when I was three and four years old. And that's the same way.

Building a Legacy of Faith and Community

Even in sports, I was a sports guy. You know, the black community has been my heart, my comfort zone, my safety. And I found them, and she saw God working on me and put me in front of Chuck Colson, the mayor. She would tell me to go speak. I was like, I don't want to go to speak. You know, what are you talking about? You know, gave me confidence in what God was doing. And that was my first kind of mentor. And that was really an open my eyes.

But he also gave me the vision for Crossroads. He gave me a list, go back to Georgia. I went back to Georgia, went and started a jail ministry where I got arrested. There were 12 churches down there. We all—it was like a revival happened in town. You know, the sheriff got $400,000 from the confiscated drugs. He went to Janet Reno and got permission to give it to me. We sent him to California. This was, you know, this is my first experience in walking in my gifting.

Wow. You know, I started a jail ministry. Oh, shit, good. Boys. Yeah, right. I started a jail ministry in Boyd's. I was doing—I mean, I was old. I was still—I got the fire. And I got, that was almost 25 years. I still got that same fire right now. But I had to get released from—I was in bondage from his demons. I mean, they tormented me from age six until I was almost 43 years old.

The Challenge of Maintaining Spiritual Clarity

Then I started to learn how to read after that. So you were saved when you had that encounter. And things were like, can you talk about that a little bit? Because you've been following Jesus, right? Ten years. You know, and he’d been giving me, you know, let me walk it as a gifting. You know, the business, I started businesses. You know, I actually did—I mean, I was doing a $6 million job. I didn't come back, have any money when I got out. I was $23,000 in debt. I paid back that. You know, it was just like God just opened the door again.

But I was walking as a righteous, and I loved him with all my heart. But I didn't know my—I didn't know how he was going to release me from my gifting. Yeah. But he gave me the vision because I saw guys in jail. I said, man, these guys—everybody's telling them about, they want to help them. But where do they go when they get out? Yeah. It's about, you know, they go back to their own neighborhood. Yeah.

Fostering a Community of Hope and Responsibility

How are you going to help somebody do that? So the guy gave me the vision of Crossroads. And then my first wife passed of opiates and died on a cruise. And, you know, I prayed over her and put my hands on her. And I know if God wanted her alive, she'd be alive. But it was time for her to take off. That opened the door for me to follow this vision. And Maria was going—we were both celebrating, covered leaders. I was—it was eight years in, and she was about six years, seven, maybe seven years.

And, you know, I had to challenge it. Am I going to follow, go after flesh? Or am I going to—is this going to be like Samson? You know, his flesh took him out of a beautiful ministry. And I had to make sure, because I had a—three million dollar homes. I had two businesses. I was sitting pretty good, you know, and pretty successful as a Christian. And it was, was I going to follow this? You see, then he tells me to sell everything.

Embracing a Life of Surrender and Faith

Yeah, yeah. What was—I mean, what was that like, that transition for him? It hit me. That was the next day after I shared. That was the next day after I floated out of there. I was such in bondage for all those years. This—this person is like this world just changed over here. It’s like this whole reality of knowing God and taking my gifting because I was pretty confident that all things are possible. So he just released me to do something that all things are possible.

You know, what is reality? You know, what is the most important thing for me to do? Use my gifting to help others like he's showing me what freedom is. How can I hold this back? I mean, the whole world's dying to understand what freedom is. The best place we can deal with is the guys on drugs because they're at the bottom. I love guys at the bottom. So do you think that journey and, and the secular world for a season as a Christian was necessary? Definitely. I had to build my foundation.

Building a Solid Foundation for Future Discipleship

Because once he opened the door and showed this other side, if I wasn't—if I wasn't had my foundation over, the crushed me. You know, he says, sell everything. Yeah. And then I found this successful lady. She was working for the county, and this is so funny. So I asked her for a date, and she says, no, I'm not going out with you. She says, okay, I'll meet you for coffee. And so when I was in jail, now tell you, I started fasting and praying while I was in jail because I couldn't read. I said, well, how can I honor God?

I started—and I started asking him for an early release. So you know, he gave me that early release, and I kept that lifestyle every week. And I—he released me to talk about it because I didn’t tell anybody for a long time. The fasting helped me renew my mind and a new reality that is spiritual instead of physical. And I've been doing that every—every week since jail. I said, man, this guy, this guy, God, listen to me. You got me out of jail. Come on.

The Power of Fasting in Spiritual Renewal

You know, I can't stop that. I can't stop that. So I never left. You know, it's been a journey. It's been 40 years, and I've been fasting and praying every week since. Sometimes I did a couple of 40-day fast, and mostly 10, 20, but at least two days a week now, that's my schedule. And instead of a strict fasting, like I used to, I have a cup of soup. So I don't want to hurt myself. I want to take care of my body. A little older. I'm not a shower because I used to be.

But that is a major part of renewing my mind. I had to—I know how bad, how horrible and evil my flesh is. If I don't keep that under grips, it's going to try to run me instead of me running it. But, you know, and in the Bible, it says, minds. So my old, my new mind has to—my new mind has got power over my old mind. And that's when there's no—it can't get me. It can't get me. My flesh, I won't allow it.

The Importance of Continuous Discipleship

So that reality of doing that when I was out, there's 10 years of Justin said, I’m still being a Christian but having that bondage. God knew you couldn't do this while you still had the bondage. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly. And when that broke, what you said was like, I noticed a whole other side of the kingdom. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's one thing to be in church and go through this. Yeah.

But when you're still carrying that, you really can't see him. Yeah. Our Corinthians, it talks about beholding his glory with an unveiled face. There are still evils on that you really can't see him. But when that bondage got taken off and you got set free, then he could say, hey, now I know you'll do it. Hey, sell everything. So deliverance is huge, and I’m trying to understand what God wants to do. But if we could get people to really understand and get delivered, they could experience what God could do with them.

The Ongoing Journey of Deliverance and Surrender

And we're so much in bondage. Look at the porn and the churches. 80% of the guys in church are probably more. And there’s no power in the church. We can't have power until we get out of bondage. Yeah. So that's huge. Yeah. You know, we're so—how would you describe...there's a lot of stuff on the internet today around deliverance. Right? It's a—it's a topic.

I can’t—I haven’t looked at one thing. I don’t know. But there’s a lot of it, man. It’s angry. People are all over the map. And a lot of times, there are these deliverance services, and there’s a guy like Enoch over my shoulder or over somebody’s shoulder. Pretty and for people. It's almost become a spectacle, if you will, a show. And so—

We didn’t even have a movie where it happened to movie theaters. Yeah. And like Bucket, it's a people bomb. Like all this is stuff all over the place. So I guess kind of for people that are watching, draw us into authentic deliverance. So what I've done, I've watched a lot—I’ve been in the black community a lot. I've seen people fall out. I've seen a lot of stuff.

Prioritizing Authenticity Over Spectacle

And I think when Lakewood revival happened in Florida, there was a revival. And I got somebody prophesied over me, and I did get a message from him. And I keep it in my... So when there’s a spiritual movement, it can spread beyond our understanding. And this is one thing God told me in that.

He says, don’t be anxious about anything. I’ve got you covered. I have called you to feed many. So when I got this place, I had a commercial kitchen. That’s how men were going to feed many. But I’m realizing the feeding many is the spiritualness. And I just woke up to that just this year. And what God is really helping us, like you guys coming over, when we’re walking into truth, it can’t be stopped.

And everybody needs it. How can we reach the people and get free? And experience what you guys are experiencing. God will cover us. Sometimes it’s a real struggle with the money, with a lot of us that are really sold into Jesus. So hopefully God does something to change that around. He probably does it to protect us. Because if we had the money, then we’d get off track. So the key is how can we stay on track with Jesus and still have money?

Preparing the Way for Revitalization and Renewal

And I think there’s going to be a way to do that. I don't know how. But God is moving us. He wants to fund this like we do. And I believe he’s even getting ready to let this—I think we’re at the tip of the iceberg. But I don't know you guys. I'm learning so much from you guys. You guys are more in the world. I kind of backed off the world and not knowing how to share what God is doing, and you guys are doing it right now. You’re kind of pulling stuff out of it, pulling it back in there.

But when there's an awakening going to happen, I don’t know if he’s coming back, or there’s going to be a revival. But a revival that doesn't last isn’t worth. No. Just a good service. That’s what I’m talking about. I don’t want to be part of that. I want to be part of the real deal. I want to see where change happens in a whole community. It shouldn’t just be a couple of good nights. The whole area should change from real revival. That’s a powerful.

And we’ve seen that over the years. He studied a great revivalist in Canada and everywhere in Brownsville. Like it didn’t just happen a couple of nights with it affected the whole community and made him mark on the world. And I believe that is real revival. And I believe it. I’ve been feeling it and seeing it everywhere we go. Like there is a hunger.

A Vision for a New Awakening

And I think that’s when revivals always came. When people are desperate and hungry for him. Forget everything else. Now, getting back to the deliverance, that is what I’m trying to figure out as we’re speaking. How do I get into a church? And without making it a spectacle, how do I do this for the real deal? To help them get set free and walk in their anointing and gifting?

First thing, it starts with the foundational pieces. And people got to realize when you get moving with God, it might take five or ten years because we got to be on the potter's wheel. He’s doing nothing but making his diamonds. And everybody wants the anointing. They want to walk next week and open a church or recovery said, come on. But if they’re willing to be all in and trust him and know that this is the way, then that time that he takes to build them, they can handle it.

And then they won’t fall. That’s the whole thing. Doing the things that we don’t fall. Well, I'm convinced of a lot with deliverance. So I just pray to the God the other day for deliverance. Who's been a Christian almost all of his life? He's not married. And he's not even really dealing with poor yet. It's just the looking.

The Continuous Journey of Deliverance and Growth

So we’re talking about that. And so there’s a difference when somebody comes in off the street that’s never had God and doesn’t know anything, or a person that knows the words of them. But I really believe that a lot of deliverance, really, they don’t need this powerful prayer deliverance. They really need to know the truth and be able to really make that truth and believe it in their own heart. They deliver themselves. Yes. That’s what I say. That’s what I try to do here. The guys can be equipped to get rid of their demons.

But what they need to have the door open to see that they have them. Because most of them don’t realize that they’re really embodied. The Bible says when an evil spirit comes out, it roams around. And then it’ll come back and check. And if it’s clean and swept. But it’s not full by the word, then it comes back to how it’s said. And so that’s the danger of all the message deliverance.

Yes. Oh, yeah. They’re always being delivered, but not always getting assured. It could be delivered for about an hour or two.

And wonder why, man, this wasn’t real. You have the deliverance, you have the encounter, but they’re not really getting fed the word, taking the word in, and really self-discipline self-to-health the word, like you’re knowing here. To keep them in the word. Because I’ve been out of the liver 14 years ago. You got delivered. Well, I guarantee you would both say this, what’s kept me free is the word of God. Right. That’s what’s kept me free for 14 years.

It's just like when people have everybody come in and they raise their hands and they surrender to the Lord. But then the discipleship is so important because it teaches them how to walk in it instead of just hearing it. Because I get most of the guys getting, no, but Scripture, up and down better than me, I said, it’s not how much you know, it’s how much you surrender to God. You can have a little and surrender to God and be powerful. Yes. A lot is great to understand God, but if you don’t surrender, it’s just a bunch of words.

That’s why pastors get, so they have a gift, but not the anointing. Now, when you get freed, you get the anointing, and then you move in the power. Yes. So that’s the hard part. God ain’t just giving it away. You got to earn this, maybe. Yeah. That’s what—the purpose says. There’s no one pastor that everybody’s going to be, because it’s a growth. Each guy, everybody’s gotta grow with God. So how do we discern that in leaders?

Like if I’m—maybe I said it a different way. When your guys are leaving and getting ready to go back and so wherever they land, when it comes to looking for our church, you're looking for leaders that they're going to be able to come up underneath. Though you said, you can have a gift, but no anointing, no power, right? So how are you encouraging your guys to discern that in people and—

Navigating the Landscape of Faith-based Communities

So as we’re moving, I’m trying to get a hopefuls. I’m trying to get a place—it’s taken eight to ten years just to be able to move and have churches trust and see, like me coming into the community, who am I? You know, just to get—see that I’m real, you know? It’s just like when you're in jail and coming out and saying it’s going to take two years before anybody trusts you in your family.

Oh yeah, sure. And me coming in here, even my neighbor, I didn’t want to tell him I got a book against all odds. I got a book I’ve done. I’m working on another book, but I didn’t bring that book out until after they knew me, because I didn’t want to scare them. You know, because everybody’s been so deceived in the world, and there’s so many pastors that fall, who’s real anymore? You know, all the big guys that fall in—what is that about? You know, are they not fasting and praying and surrendering to God every day or are they just talking about it?

Recognizing the Spiritual Battle Within

So we gotta be so careful on what we’re doing. I can’t—if I deceived these guys, they’re going to say, oh, what’s this Christian thing about? So I’m going to walk out of here, never walk with God, you know? So, you know, I gotta be an example of what I say and give them hope that it’s real, because most of them when they come here, it’s got really real, you know, what is it about? But my story, as I mean, you know, I couldn’t read and write, and God gave me this place. And, you know, I’m living with my wife and she—I’ve never argued with my wife.

We haven’t had an argument. We’ve been married 14 years. How’s that happen? And we’ve been through this. That’s a whole new year. Yeah. That’s a whole new year. Look, when I left my other business to do this, I thought the stamp was going to do the right thing and was a year after I bought this, IRS called me. I had a $500,000 IRS bill didn’t know I had and I just had spent all my money. And at the same time, Maria was trying—we were trying to have kids.

She had been through seven miscarriages, and I was running this place and trying to say, God, what are you trying to teach me? What are you doing? You know, but he took all my money, and he said, trust me. And it drove me almost a year before I finally started to say, okay, God, you’re going to take care of this. And he got me out of it. I was such an amazing thing. You know, we're still going to be tested because he's building us while we’re testing.

Transformational Understanding of God's Work

You know, and James says, can’t it all joy? That’s a hard baby. It is. It is. Yeah, I can’t believe it. But that’s what he’s doing. That’s what he’s building. And now I’ve got through that and, you know, got people started coming and finances started helping. Like I said, this is the first year we haven’t been in debt or, you know, worried about paying the bills while we’re getting ready to do our fundraiser. So it’s taking time and trusting God. God never lets us down, but he’s just going to see who we are.

You know, and I think that’s, he’s built, that’s why I think he’s building something. There’s like this new generation, or I don’t know if it’s a generation of—like you guys, he’s molding you guys. And what is he molding us for? I think there’s something going on. And I think he’s doing the same thing to me, like you guys coming up here. You know, I don’t know how this is all connecting, but he’s up to something. It’s not work. He’s not waste. God don’t waste.