Rebuilding Strong Families Starts with Strong Fathers

Outsourcing parenting to church, school, and TV

I think a lot of times we've juggled kids to church and hope that, you know, the preacher, the Sunday school teacher, et cetera, et cetera would do the work of raising the children. And here, let me send them to public school 40 hours a week and let them watch TV when they get home during that gap before, you know, they're home at 3, I'm not off 'til 6. So I'm just going to let them sit in front of the TV. Any kind of relationship with longevity, man, you're going to see the best and the worst of people.

And you, you got to have love and you got to have forgiveness operating in your life at all times. And so that's what we were modeling for a few past generations of children. And as that marriage started to break down, now we're, we're, we're right smack dab in the middle of a total societal collapse because, just because of the simplicity of God's model for our family. Well, Terrence, how are you tonight?

Oh, doing well. So tell us a little bit about the podcast before we get into our conversation and what you got going on with your weekly show that you've been doing in kind of the direction that you're headed with that.

Simple Truth podcast and speaking controversial truths

Well, I've been probably about the last six or seven years probably been doing a podcast called Simple Truth. We're going to go in another direction as far as I'm going to be more of a lead host. I really want to focus on kind of like what we're going to talk about tonight. Things that are important, but not necessarily always talked about in a church setting.

They do need to be talked about because, you know, most of your people vote, some of them vote because that's just a way they've always voted without really a lot of information. And then some people of course are keenly aware of why they vote for who they vote for. So it's just things like that. I'm just hoping to keep it going and actually kick it up or not.

I'm biting some guests and try to continue it. So you're saying you're going to stay away from all the controversial stuff? No. I mean, anyone that I'm just kidding, that would probably be out of character for me. No, I enjoyed our conversation about that last time. We were talking about the role of politics in the church and how we've kind of pulled back from those controversial topics in the church world.

I don't think anybody enjoys diving into controversy, having to deal with some of the vitriol and comments that come as a result of just saying things. But I think what people misunderstand a lot is that we're not saying things to be controversial. We're just speaking the truth. Now, it may be received as controversial and that is what it is.

But I'm not going to mince words or hold back on truth just because it may offend. We're not setting out to offend. But if that's the result of the truth, you know, even the Bible is offensive. The word of God is foolishness to those who are parishioners, but to those of us who are saved, you know, it's life. It's the word of God.

And so I think about, I think about that a lot. And so tonight we're going to dive into another not-so-controversial topic in the issues with masculinity.

Masculinity on TV — Home Improvement and media trends

And you are, I asked you about what we wanted to talk about in this conversation. And you mentioned some of the dumbing down of male figures in media over the years and what we've seen on television. And you know, Terrence, the first show that I thought about when you mentioned that was Home Improvement. Do you remember Home Improvement?

I love that show. It was hilarious. Tim, his manner was hilarious. He was a man's man, but he was always jacking something up like everything he did.

Now fortunately, 20, 25 years later, he redeemed himself on Last Man Standing, right? When he came back as Mike Baxter. He was that solid, strong man, very strong with his family and all that.

You know, during that show, you know, now that you mentioned it, I started just kind of recalling all these shows from when I was younger growing up and just watching this buffoon-type male being presented constantly. You know, what do you think led to that? I mean, is there an agenda behind that or what's the purpose, you think?

Well, I believe there's definitely an agenda. As we see more and more females step into the forefront, and we had a significant move toward feminism in the '60s, as well as the sexual revolution and things like that, the lines between those genders have gotten thinner and thinner with women leaving the home to work and becoming more independent, which I'm not in any way saying that's a bad thing totally.

Feminism, changing gender roles, and family structure

But that's not the America, you know, from the '30s, '40s, '50s on up. It was not the case. It was, you know, mom was taking care of the home, taking care of the children, dad was working and he came home to his family, come home to a cooked meal. I mean, all those things are probably long gone in the modern world now as far as coming home to a meal, most of the time, you know, you grab something or order pizza or something like that.

So the world's changed a lot and we've just seen the role of, again, I said, the role of men and women has changed, families look different, there's a lot of broken homes, there's a lot of out of wedlock births that has created single parents that are working and trying to find childcare and all those different things. So a lot of challenges and let's be fair, we take it on the channel a lot, but it's true. There's a lot of men that don't hold up to their responsibilities, which creates some of that brokenness.

And so we've had some pretty poor examples of men down through the years. I grew up in a single parent with a single mom, never had a relationship with my dad. So those things have just become the norm unfortunately. You know, two parents is just almost a foreign concept. I mean, you and your wife, me and mine, we're not, we're the exception now, we're not the role.

And so all those things have an impact. I mean, you start to create mentalities. The children grow up with that being, if they grow up in a single parent home, then they don't know that dynamic; they can observe it and maybe some of their friends might be blessed enough to have two parents, but they don't understand what that is in their home.

And you know, the dynamics of how they're raised, how they're reared and all that stuff, of course, is shifted. And so yeah, I think it's by design, obviously, from the enemy, but I also think that some things have contributed over the last probably 40 years of maybe trickling in a little bit at a time the way things have been viewed. I was just talking to my wife earlier, you brought up shows, man; I wasn't, obviously, I'm older than you, but probably a lot older than you. You would have to go to maybe Nick at Nite or MeTV to see some of the really old shows like Father Knows Best or Leave It to Beaver. You had those family units that were two parents, mom was at home with their children, taking care of the home, but those things we've slowly gone away.

I mean, I guess one of the later shows was, of course, Bill Cosby—no longer a shining example—but The Cosby Show depicted two upwardly mobile parents in a two-parent home with two careers and solid kids. That was one of the last remaining shows of that type of family dynamic. I remember watching Full House with Bob Saget growing up; those were the shows that were on all the time. I think it was TGIF, thank goodness it's Friday, and there was a whole lineup of these shows.

When you start to see that become the majority, it's like the chicken or the egg—what led to the absence of fathers in the home: was it the downplay, or, as you mentioned earlier, the push for feminism? There's nothing wrong with women having independence and feminism; nobody wants to hold women down. But when you get to the extreme, what do you say to those who would say, you know, you guys are just old fashioned, right, you're just trying to hold women down, trying to pull us back to this time when, you know, women didn't have any rights?

I would say, first of all, I agree with you: I am old fashioned. Even though I would be quick to tell them that I wasn't blessed to have that family dynamic, I do know, as a minister of God, what God's design for family was and what his original intent was—husbands and wives and children, godly offspring releasing godly generations from that household. All we've seen is brokenness in terms of gender, with dysphoria and confusion and all that stuff. We know that God's not the author of confusion; He is the author of peace, and when you break up that family dynamic and create something else on your own, it doesn't really have God's blessing on it.

Now, will God bring blessings out of it? I tend to think so; I'm hoping that I'm one of the proofs that that does happen and that God can redeem and break the curse so it doesn't have to continue. To answer that person's question, again, I am old fashioned, and I believe that the Bible gives us the best recipe for a healthy, functioning home. The fact that we've gone away from those standards, or we consider them antiquated or even hateful, doesn't mean that what we've replaced them with is working either.

And you wonder when we kind of open our eyes and look around at society and say, I mean, something in this system is broken, right? I mean, we're pushing this model, and yet it's just not working. We've got a whole generation of confused teenagers and young people that don't know who they are; they don't understand their identity. I mean, and it's unfortunate to see the far-reaching impacts of us sliding away from God's design, more and more and more, the further we slip away from how God designed things.

Policy incentives, single motherhood, and community impact

I think that's the beauty of leaning into the specific gender roles. I think we got into this a little bit last time, so I don't want to go too deep into it again, but when we lean into being who God created us to be, there's so much beauty and purpose for that. Life gets chaotic and stressful and messed up when we start to look for fulfillment outside of who God created us to be. And that's what leads to turmoil.

You know, I was googling earlier when we were shooting articles back and forth to talk about this conversation. I saw an article that popped up and it was interesting because it didn't just talk about media. It started to talk about how the courts have incentivized family court, for instance, and have made it very advantageous to be a single mother. And I'm thinking about some of that in regards to this dynamic and the incentive for people to stay single, not get married.

And if you're a single mother and you've got children, there are a long laundry list of benefits, whereas you bring the dad into the home and there's marriage and all of that, it seems that the courts and the system aren't really that favorable. I mean, have you seen any of that? Do you have any thoughts around that whole thing?

Well, as far as the ethnic culture that I belong to, that whole thing in the '60s created an incentive for single women to raise children. They got more money the more children they had, as long as the dad wasn't around. And so basically, just being honest, we saw women exchange husbands to be married to the government and to get those benefits. Of course, it's spread to other ethnicities, but it was definitely something that characterized us during the civil rights movement and the Great Society under Lyndon B. Johnson. You got more money, but you had a broken home.

I mean, mother has to work, so who's with the kids? The kids start to be raised by television. They're out on the block. They're out in the neighborhoods with other guys with other kids and they're going to find mischief at some point. Their education is going to suffer, their future is going to suffer as far as their earning potential, things like that, because most of them didn't finish school—it's just a snowball going downhill.

I don't have the statistics in front of me, but your chances of graduating high school and even possibly going to college shoot way up when you're coming from a two-parent home that had some stability versus a single-parent home. And again, there are always exceptions to those things. I am one of them; I went to college, I have a college degree, and I was a product of a single-mom home. But again, just because it can work doesn't mean it's God's plan.

I grew up not knowing the father function, and now I've raised four children of my own. I've had to play catch-up. When you think about how many sons do you have, Terrence? I have three sons and one daughter. And I've had to, I've actually probably learned a little bit from some of the television dads and maybe also some dads that I got to learn from as far as playing sports. Some of my coaches became very huge in my life.

So I mean, it's possible God can do it. But the fact is, He shouldn't have to create a miracle. We should just be obedient to live by the standards that He gives us. He who finds a wife finds a good thing. So it's very important for us to find someone who's preparing themselves to be married.

And we as husbands have to prepare ourselves as well. We have to make solid financial decisions, solid decisions about how we're going to be in a moral sense to prepare ourselves for that lady that God wants to bring to us. And then we build our life together. You know, marriage in itself is difficult enough before you throw kids in.

What's happening in this generation, and even in my generation, is kids come before marriage, unfortunately, a lot of times. And if marriage ever comes, we have the whole baby mama, baby daddy syndrome in this generation now. It's creating a function that's not supposed to be there.

Yeah, I mean, this "test drive" mentality — test driving the car for 10 years before people decide to finally get married — it's like you've been living together for two or three years and you're not willing to commit to marriage. And you're not going to commit; it's a cheap way out. It's unfortunate.

I heard an internet preacher say the other day, just because a guy can do a miracle doesn't mean we want to make him have to do a miracle. And I think the pastor said—I can't remember which preacher said it—that the Bible says all things work together for good. A lot of times we look at that and we're like, "Oh yes, my life's a mess; all things work together for the good." But then he went on to say, did you know that all things can just work? Like, you know, we don't have to find ourselves in that position where we're thankful that all things work together for the good.

There's a lot of learning that comes in that when we realize that sometimes we're praying for God to do things that had we just followed His original order, we would have never had to have these prayers later on. And that's really what it goes back to. We talk about God's design for men and for women and the family and the home being central. John and I are pretty big on talking about from the pulpit at the Brooks Act quite a bit that the church is secondary to what happens in your home.

We're really consistent on that. I think a lot of times we've juggled kids to church and hope that, you know, the preacher, the Sunday school teacher, et cetera, et cetera, will do the work of raising the children. And here, let me send them to public school 40 hours a week and let them watch TV when they get home during that gap before, you know, they're home at 3, I'm not off 'til 6. So I'm just going to let them sit in front of the TV where, oh, by the way, they're showing broken families, they're showing absent fathers, they're showing bumbling idiots as dads.

They're showing newly redefined relationships and all these new identities; kids are just being educated that. And then it's like, "Oh God, here's my 45 minutes; please disciple my kids in that period." You know, and it's just like, it doesn't work. We wonder why they run from the church because 45 minutes is just not enough, right? And now the church is just not enough.

Like this building teaching God's foundation, teaching His order, teaching His design—it's a daily discipline; it's a daily process. I actually posted something the other day; I think it was a Paul Tripp quote where I said God didn't just call us to influence the lives of our children to do the work of God in the lives of our children, but He's also brought our children into our lives for God to do His work in us as well.

That's such a great picture of parenting, really a fathering, because we try to do our best to raise them and show them the way, but we learn our own shortcomings, our own weaknesses, our own failures and our own mistakes. I don't need a guy on TV to show me what it looks like to blow it; I do that pretty well by myself sometimes. The thing about parenting is that it doesn't end; it just kind of switches from disciplinary to coach to mentor. At some point with your kids, you'll go from "Do this because I told you so" to where they're going to do things and they're going to mess up just like we did, and we're going to have to give them wisdom when they need it.

I'm in that stage now where it's really difficult to sit back and watch them make mistakes, and they don't always learn until they've really blown it and get some perspective and realize, "Yeah, I remember Dad saying something about that years ago." So now they understand. And that's the tough thing about waiting for them to learn those lessons on their own and trying to be patient.

But Sarah, are all your kids out of the house? No, they're not out of the house. Well, they all graduated high school. They're all done; they're all graduated. What would you say—and I know every season of parenting has its challenges—but for a dad that might be listening, what would you say was your hardest season? The first one, the second one, the third one where y'all are playing his own defense, or four when you're just plumb outnumbered two to one? And it's like, man, what the heck? That's where we're at now.

The most difficult was going from one to two because you had to divide your attention in two ways. When you have the first one, everything's about that one and your total attention is on that one. And then when the second one comes, you have to learn how to divide that attention. To go from two to three, you've already done that; it's just a little more work.

Once you go from one to multiple, it becomes more of a challenge attention-wise. And of course, to me, the most difficult season is probably those teenage years when they start to believe they know as much as you do. Regardless of the wisdom you give them, they make decisions to try some things they want to try or hang with people you wouldn't advise. Ultimately, you have to trust God with all of it from crawling to being done with school and into the workforce, college, or military.

I wouldn't say going from one to two was super difficult; it was just switching something in your mind you have to do. You're now divided; all the love you were pouring on that one, you now have to make your heart a little bigger. I've had to quadruple my heart over the years to make space for all four and to give attention to all four, to make all four feel like they're special in their own right even though they're all different. I wouldn't advise it for anyone unless you're going to be totally committed.

Something my wife decided to do early on was, knowing the world we're about to send our children into, you have to parent with that in mind. You can't have a Pollyanna approach; you have to have keen discernment about what kind of environment you're putting them into. We weren't able to homeschool or send them to Christian school, but we had discussions often and I told them, "Look, there are some things you may have to put down on paper." There are some things you'll have to learn in a book to pass a test; just know that not everything you're being educated with is the truth.

We had conversations about some of those things and we were pretty heavy-handed on them as far as knowing where they were and who they were hanging with. I'm pretty sure they didn't understand all that at the time, but I think they're starting to understand what our methods were because they look around and see some of their former classmates and the way the world is now. I think that vindicated us in their hearts.

It's that assertiveness—I'm going to risk affinity for a few moments—I'll grab your iPod out of your hand, take a look through it and scroll through everything. We're going to do spot checks. We're going to do accountability checks. What did that discipleship look like for you, Terrence? How did you balance being intentional about discipleship with your kids given they were in public school and you knew there was a lot of garbage they were being exposed to?

Well, like you said, part of their lives I was pastor. The other part of it, I was leading worship. My kids were sitting on the floor when I'm on the platform leading worship, so they didn't know a life where that wasn't part of it. From a very young age, I really didn't shield them from a lot of conversations about things going on in the world; we talked about it from a biblical perspective, letting them know what things were right and wrong. We were pretty open with them about any topic, whether it was something on the news or something in the world; we talked about it around them.

Because I know some parents don't talk to their children openly—some things are labeled not kid-friendly—I believe kids can handle a lot more than we give them credit for. My kids grew up here around drug addict testimonies from Teen Challenge from like two years old; they can handle it. They survived. Those are things we were pretty open with them about; we had conversations a lot.

They were sitting there; they weren't nested—they didn't necessarily know how to add anything to the conversation, but they were in the audience at home. Now that they're older, a lot of stuff we've been talking about for years, their eyes are open; they weren't caught off guard. I smile inside knowing that part of what I did right, because we agonize over what we didn't do right. Parenting is trial and error; we're going to make mistakes, be angry, overreact—it's not for the faint of heart.

Most importantly, the trend away from two-parent homes makes everything more difficult. If it's difficult with two parents, it goes up exponentially with one. That opens up avenues for kids being molested, violated, not supervised, put in front of a TV or a tablet as babysitters because mom just got home from work and has to catch a couple hours' sleep before going back on a night shift. We see a trend of grandparents raising grandchildren now. The whole two-parent home issue really comes back to looking inwardly—there's got to be something in my relationship that my kids see and want for themselves.

Am I modeling something attractive? With everything else in the world, I don't want to put undue pressure on people, but marriage, relationships, and parenting come with a lot of pressure. That's why the Bible admonishes us to take His yoke upon us, because His yoke is easy and His burden is light. It goes back to following His design for it all.

When relationships with our spouses function biblically, they're beautiful—exactly as God intended them to be. Our children see as much love 15 years later as they did when they were brand new; they see that love growing and the desire to be close to each other. Hopefully my daughter chooses a husband someday and I've modeled enough that I can say I hope she picks somebody like me. I'm fortunate because I married a woman who's been following Jesus her whole life; she didn't live the life I lived. She's been modest by choice since the moment I met her and she dresses appropriately—my wife models the woman I want each of my daughters to be.

I hope as a man I model the husband I want my daughters to seek in a spouse. That's pressure. We lack examples of fathering in culture, and the culture doesn't support it anymore, which puts more weight on us to be those examples because our future generations are at stake.

Choosing a spouse, fighting generational curses, and a call back to God's standard

You have any thoughts on that? Well, again, I believe generational curses have happened from sinful behavior. Until someone in that family line decides, "I'm going to live for God," we can reverse that trend. What we see spiraling in our communities is because each subsequent generation is venturing further away from God and His standards. We know those things work; we know who created them and that they work.

We're in the middle of a generation that thinks everything we feel is the most important. When it comes to gender or anything else, whatever we choose to identify as we demand others recognize. Where did all that come from? It starts in the home. We used to have a society where you didn't dare talk about divorce. Now marriage is disposable.

I've done a whole lot of marriages, and one a couple years ago didn't make it a year. This younger generation doesn't know a lot about commitment because feelings mean so much. "I don't feel the same about you" is held above long-term commitment, not knowing that in a long-term commitment you'll see your partner at their worst and their best. You've got to love them when you're upset and fight through disagreements; any long-term relationship will show the best and worst of people and you'll need love and forgiveness operating at all times.

That's what we modeled for past generations. As marriages started to break down, we found ourselves smack dab in the middle of societal collapse because of the simplicity of God's model for family. That's why appealing to feelings is so dangerous. That's where we end up with issues like abortion—there's no self-control. Many who argue for it point to a tiny fraction of tragic cases, but the reality is the cause is often a feelings-first culture.

Feelings say, "You're trying to oppress me; you're trying to hold me down; you're trying to steal my right to choose." But you've always had the right to choose; feelings sometimes need to take a back seat for a few moments. We were at a concert last night and Pat Barrett sings the song "Canvas and Clay" and the very first line is, "Falling is easy; staying in love is hard." That line stuck with me; I put the song on my playlist because that's the truth.

We're looking for emotion. There's attraction and feeling—those are God-given gifts—but true love is about commitment on the other side. If you play it out, there could be children one day, and that's an 18-year commitment, longer really—it's lifelong to your spouse and your children. We're so quick to run on feelings instead of understanding that the Word of God is the standard; it's the truth that holds it all up.

Some days I feel like following the Word; other days I feel like giving into my flesh. That's the battle—the constant self-sacrifice. I've got to die daily because this isn't easy, but on the other side there's fruit and righteousness. I'm intentional because I was a drug addict; I've got to break that generational curse. I don't want that going down to the next generation.

Man, I am fighting like hell to do it—excuse the French, but it's the appropriate expression. I'm fighting like crazy to make sure that doesn't pass down to my girls because they deserve a better life. We go through the struggle so they don't have to. They can learn from our mistakes, but it takes that fight.

That ties into what we were talking about: men seeing how they're presented in culture and becoming demoralized. What about the men out there who feel like they've lost their will to fight because the battle is so big? What would you say to them?

I'd say point them to the one place where there's no dysfunction—God. God has a standard and a design. I'm not saying it's easy; in fact, it's harder because culture is swimming the other way and choosing to go against the grain means swimming upstream. Finding a spouse will probably be your first major hurdle, and it's the hardest one because it's a lifelong commitment. That's too important.

If you're going to parent kids, the most important choice you make is who your partner will be, because there are all kinds of sources of conflict and bringing kids into a marriage that's not on equal footing—unequally yoked—is like throwing a bomb into it. Kids don't fix problems; they amplify them. They will make problems louder just by being kids, so you've got to create the atmosphere you want to bring them into. To me, that's the number one thing.

So, if you're out there, your choice of a spouse must be more than superficial things like how she looks in her clothes, the width of her hips, or how her hair is. Those are superficial; how she thinks is probably the most important aspect of choosing someone to be with. They have to have similar values. No matter how a person appears, behind closed doors you might find you can't live with them.

Tell my wife we talk about this all the time. I said Halle Berry is one of the most beautiful actresses in the world, and she's been married four or five times; that ought to tell you something. Who wouldn't want to stay married to her? But behind the scenes, who is she when the lights aren't shining? She's had five spouses and it's ended similarly each time. So what we choose can't be driven by flesh; it has to be about who God has for us and what values and standards they live by. We need to be compatible and on the same page.

The world is choosing from the flesh at an alarming rate. If you're choosing your fantasy football roster more carefully than your future spouse, there might be a problem. People will do deep research on players, but not on the person they'll marry. It's often an ego thing—you want someone who makes you look good. I'm fortunate to have a wife who kept things above board and focused on godly standards. When I met her, she prayed before dating, and that was rare.

Both of us had lists of qualities we wanted in a spouse, and each of us were on each other's lists. For me, I wasn't going to marry someone with the same drug past I had—not that God can't redeem someone else, but I knew if I relapsed she wouldn't go there as fast; she's never been there. Having that stability in my life mattered. I could go on about Ashley for an hour, but the point is neither of us are perfect—we both have backstories where God did a miracle—neither of us claim perfection.

The encouragement is that men, you're not alone. There are guys out here who want to stand for truth and break generational cycles. We want to reset the standard and point people back to the Word of God. It may be old fashioned or considered antiquated, but all I know is it works.

You can call it whatever you want. I'd rather walk around with a crutch than be laid out with broken legs, not being able to move anywhere. That's not an insult to me because it holds me up; it does more than hold me up, it holds me together. We're coming to the end of our hour, Sarah. I know we kind of started at TV shows and ended up on marriage, and I think the conversation took a good direction. You have any parting thoughts?

Well, I mean, we talked about marriage because why start a family? Why start a family unless you've already done that? That's first base? Actually, no, it's not first base. First base is your relationship with God. Second base is preparing yourself to be a godly man or preparing to meet someone who's godly. Third base, if we're using a baseball analogy, is finding the right spouse. Then you plan together, get your life straight, and get ready to bring children into the world. A husband and a wife constitute a family with God before the children come, and if we don't get that right we have no business bringing children on the scene because we create dysfunction and confusion.

We don't have to point very hard at society—just look at it. What they're calling freedom, liberty, or equity are often just fancy terms for bondage. They don't see it that way; they see it as freedom. Whatever's not God's standard is ultimately bondage. This whole feelings thing started in Genesis 3 in the garden—"Did God really say?" When Adam and Eve ate from that tree it awakened other senses and made feelings very important. We went away from relying on God's voice and what He said as the standard and now give greater emphasis to feelings and opinions than to God.

We bit that apple, so to speak, and the rest has been history. We've got to get back to God's standard. Maybe we won't fix the whole world, but we can fix the portion we control. If everyone does that, we can have godly families and godly offspring as the Bible declares. That's good, Terrence.

You were talking there and Galatians 5:13 popped into my head as you were talking about that—Paul says, "For you brothers, were called to freedom, but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather serve one another in love." The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: love your neighbor as yourself.

But if you keep on biting and devouring one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another. That really is the reality of living by feelings—it's a fancy word for giving into the flesh. Whatever the flesh wants is what the flesh gets, and unfortunately Paul goes on to talk about a lot more in Galatians 5:16 onward and verse 26. That's the world we live in now.

It's feelings and flesh; we're using our freedom to do whatever we want. But Christ gave us freedom for a purpose—to serve other people in love. It starts with commitment to Christ and dedicating our life and family life to Him as the foundation. It's not easy, but it's doable.

Terrence, I appreciate you jumping on tonight. For those watching, definitely check his show out, Simple Truth Radio. You said something about rebranding, but for now, everything is still Simple Truth, right?

Yeah. People can search him on Facebook at Simple Truth Radio. Is it weekly right now? Oh, it's biweekly. It's every two weeks. Go over and give him support—we're going to relaunch on April 19th with a live show. We're on Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts as well.

Well, fantastic. I definitely do check Terrence's show out. He is a passionate man of God, very confident, and very consistent in speaking the truth. I think that's something definitely lacking in our culture today.

Terrence, I appreciate you, man. I appreciate all of our private conversations and engaging back and forth—"What do you think of this? What do you think of that?" Having those discussions and knowing that if I ask you a question I'm going to get the truth and not be beaten around the bush is valuable. I really value that.

I appreciate you as well. We're cut from the same cloth; I praise God for that. Hey, man, well, God bless you. Thank you guys for watching. You all have a wonderful evening. Thanks again, Terrence. All right, man.